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#1
07-31-2005, 11:17 PM
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Should You Quit Your Day Job? — Part I
I've recently gone for it and I think your article is wrong in a couple of respects.
1. chances of making it. [ QUOTE ] My current position can be summarized fairly succinctly. Don't quit your day job unless you: 1. Play very well 2. Fully understand what you will gain and lose 3. Are willing to take very large risks 4. Can handle the emotional roller coaster 5. Are willing and able to make some huge changes in your attitudes and lifestyle [/ QUOTE ] Later on you suggest that thwe odds against making it are 20:1 or worse. I only claim to be able to play reasonably well but give myself 10/10 on the others. I just don't believe its any near 20:1 against an online pro making it - if you have discipline, a decent bankroll and many 100,000's of hands beating the game for enough (as any would be pro should have) then you're a very decent bet to make it. Your 20:1 may be true for a live pro, I dunno about that. 2. It's a Dreary Life Maybe, but you obviously like your job. I had a great job in many peoples eyes but I hated it and I'm not the only one. I think you ignore the fact that many people will not be happy working a normal day job and for them poker pro is a great option if they can hack it. 3. It's Extremely Unhealthy I used to get up when I was tired, commute for 1-2 hours in a polluted environment, sit in front of a computer all day, commute for another 1-2 hours and go to bed just when I started feeling wide awake. Now I get up when I wake up, walk to the spare room, sit at a computer all day and go to bed when I'm tired. Has anyone done any studies on the corrolation between being waken up from a deep sleep by an alarm clock and life expectancy? Just some thoughts. I'm not claimimg its an easy life and would advise anyone against it until they have played enough to dismiss 300BB downswings as mearly very very annoying, but I think you present a bit of a one-sided case. chez 
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#2
08-01-2005, 12:22 AM
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Re: Should You Quit Your Day Job? — Part I
I think play Poker for a living would take the fun out of Poker, and fun out of life itself.
Picture your typical daily job, you drive to work in traffic and sit there bored as hell, just trying to stay awake for the first half of your shift and then you countdown the minutes till the end of your shift after lunch and go home, have supper and barely anytime for your family because you have to wake up early the next morning. HOWEVER, somewhere along the day of work, you get to meet people, get to chat with that new girl and that pretty much motivates you to get out of bed. But if you played Poker for a living, you'd barely make any contact with other human beings and you'd STILL be sitting in front of a computer just hoping the Pokersite let's you win that day. The only way I can picture myself playing Poker for a living is part time through hosting tournaments. That's all.
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#3
08-01-2005, 12:56 AM
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Re: Should You Quit Your Day Job? — Part I
[ QUOTE ]
I think play Poker for a living would take the fun out of Poker, and fun out of life itself. Picture your typical daily job, you drive to work in traffic and sit there bored as hell, just trying to stay awake for the first half of your shift and then you countdown the minutes till the end of your shift after lunch and go home, have supper and barely anytime for your family because you have to wake up early the next morning. HOWEVER, somewhere along the day of work, you get to meet people, get to chat with that new girl and that pretty much motivates you to get out of bed. But if you played Poker for a living, you'd barely make any contact with other human beings and you'd STILL be sitting in front of a computer just hoping the Pokersite let's you win that day. The only way I can picture myself playing Poker for a living is part time through hosting tournaments. That's all. [/ QUOTE ] That's a fair point of view but having to go to work was pretty draining on my quality of life as well. If you need the social aspect during the working day then fair enough but I now have an extra 10-20 hours a week saved from commuting which can be put to good social use. Also I'm not as tired as I used to be because; commuting, dull meetings, conforming to silly conventions, and having to go to sleep at the wrong times are all very tiring. Reading Dr Alan Schoonmaker piece makes it sound like working for a living is great but it isn't for many of us. It seems likely to me that many of the people capable of making money at poker are also the sort of people who are going to hate a conventional job. For us the only important question is viablity and I think Dr Alan Schoonmaker overstates how difficult it is, possibly because most of his perspective seems to be from live play rather than from online play where it is much easier to make serious money. I take your point about chatting to the new girl, I'll have to work on that one [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] chez
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#4
08-01-2005, 08:57 PM
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Before You Quit Your Day Job
I just finished an analysis of the Party Leaderboard.
Chezlaw, Give me your best guess... How much each of the following make per month? And this is out of roughly 50,000 Party SNG players. Party Leaderboard #1 $ ??? #10 $ ??? #50 $ ??? #100 $ ??? #200 $ ??? #300 $ ??? #400 $ ??? #500 $ ??? And then I'll give you my estimates. Hint: the 20:1 figure is probably low. rm+ [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#5
08-02-2005, 02:15 AM
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Re: Before You Quit Your Day Job
[ QUOTE ]
I just finished an analysis of the Party Leaderboard. Chezlaw, Give me your best guess... How much each of the following make per month? And this is out of roughly 50,000 Party SNG players. Party Leaderboard #1 $ ??? #10 $ ??? #50 $ ??? #100 $ ??? #200 $ ??? #300 $ ??? #400 $ ??? #500 $ ??? And then I'll give you my estimates. Hint: the 20:1 figure is probably low. rm+ [/ QUOTE ] No doubt, but how many of those people pass any sort of qualifying test for going pro? If the point is that a random players chance of making it as a pro is worse than 1:20 then that's obviously true but surely not what is being suggested by the article. The article is aimed at people who have good reason to believe they are beating the game and are considering giving up a conventional job to go full-time. chez
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#6
08-02-2005, 10:12 AM
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Re: Before You Quit Your Day Job
Answer:
#1 $8000/month #50 $3000/month #100 $2500/month #200 $2000/month (probably high) #300 $1500/month (probably high) The point is... Only the Top 200-300 at Party Poker out of 50,000 SNG players... Are making a "living wage". You can double that number if you like... It doesn't change much. The vast majority of "Pro Poker Players"... Make an erratic "subsistence living" of $1000-$2000/month. Do that for 10 years and you'll be a divorced alcoholic. It's just like day trading stocks... (Which I have been doing very successfully for 10 years)... Where maybe 2-3% make a "living wage". Real life is ultra-competitive. In "near zero sum" games like stock trading or poker... You have to be genius level with the right skills and experience... And that's why 20:1 is about right or even low. That said... Best of luck to you... Everyone should follow their dreams. rm+ [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#7
08-02-2005, 01:21 PM
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Re: Before You Quit Your Day Job
[ QUOTE ]
Answer: #1 $8000/month #50 $3000/month #100 $2500/month #200 $2000/month (probably high) #300 $1500/month (probably high) The point is... Only the Top 200-300 at Party Poker out of 50,000 SNG players... Are making a "living wage". You can double that number if you like... It doesn't change much. The vast majority of "Pro Poker Players"... Make an erratic "subsistence living" of $1000-$2000/month. Do that for 10 years and you'll be a divorced alcoholic. It's just like day trading stocks... (Which I have been doing very successfully for 10 years)... Where maybe 2-3% make a "living wage". Real life is ultra-competitive. In "near zero sum" games like stock trading or poker... You have to be genius level with the right skills and experience... And that's why 20:1 is about right or even low. That said... Best of luck to you... Everyone should follow their dreams. rm+ [/ QUOTE ] I think you will find that most decent earners are playing ring games, mainly 5/6-max limit holdem for me. I've been making more than $3000 per month for the last 18 months playing part time and, as I said, I'm only reasonably good. Many are earning at far higher rates than me. Obviously if you don't make enough per hour then going pro is silly. The question is whether or not someone who beats the game for enough should give up the day job. BTW you do not need to be a genius or anywhere close and I'm not following my dream. Online poker just gave me another option to earn money and its a much better option for me than a conventional job. chez
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#8
08-02-2005, 01:40 PM
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Re: Before You Quit Your Day Job
Whats the deal with all these going pro articles acting as if poker is going to enslave you. If you play 10+ hours a day, have no social life, and are an overweight smoking alcoholic, that is because of choices YOU made not poker. Join a gym, do some volunteer work, spend more time with friends/family. To me the most appealing thing about going pro is the fact that it would give me more free time to do the things that I want to do. Working 9-5 sucks no matter how you cut it.
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#9
08-02-2005, 01:58 PM
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Re: Before You Quit Your Day Job
[ QUOTE ]
Working 9-5 sucks no matter how you cut it. [/ QUOTE ] EXACTLY!
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#10
08-02-2005, 04:15 PM
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Re: Before You Quit Your Day Job
[ QUOTE ]
Whats the deal with all these going pro articles acting as if poker is going to enslave you. If you play 10+ hours a day, have no social life, and are an overweight smoking alcoholic, that is because of choices YOU made not poker. Join a gym, do some volunteer work, spend more time with friends/family. To me the most appealing thing about going pro is the fact that it would give me more free time to do the things that I want to do. Working 9-5 sucks no matter how you cut it. [/ QUOTE ] Many people like going to work. It gives them status, stucture and makes them feel useful. Working 9-5 doesn't suck for them and good luck to them but they should understand that many of us hate going to work and endure it for the money. Your right of course, I was an overweight, smoking alcoholic long before I discovered poker. <digression>I smile a lot more now. Its been three months since I sat through a powerpoint presentation on how wonderful our company is, given to a salesman who will retaliate with his own presentation selling us some rubbish we almost certainly dont want. Three months since the quality morons need my input on designing a form, that I'll have to fill in or sign, whose only purpose in life is to sit in a file until more quality morons check its been filled in and signed... I'll have to stop or I'm going to break out in song. <end digression>. chez
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