Hmmm Flush Draw hand

Shillx · #1 07-29-2005, 08:04 PM

I'm drunk and on vacation and have a few hours to shoot the [censored], so how about a post. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] It has been a while...

I think that this is one of the most interesting spots in all of poker. Very tough and you have to use all of your skills to make the right move. This hand took place at the Wynn Las Vegas about a month ago. I was really drunk at the time and still drinking so take it into account. The SB was pretty serious and I was the exact opposite (he was wearing FullTilt gear fwiw). The game is 4/8 and we are 9 handed.

Hero holds A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the CO.

Three of the usual suspect types (too loose, too passive) limp in and Hero raises. Button folds and a pretty decent SB calls. He is aggressive and wins lots of hands pre-showdown. BB calls and everyone else does. Six to the flop and 12 SB are in the pot.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Check to Hero who bets. SB check/raises and everyone else folds. Hero makes it 3-bets and he just calls.

Turn (9 BB): K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

He bets, Hero ???

What do we think here...call, raise or fold? Why?

Cheers,
Brad

shadow29 · #2 07-29-2005, 08:16 PM

Call.
Call.

Same as raise/fold. We catch a bluff this way and we get to river a crub.

toss · #3 07-29-2005, 08:16 PM

Clearly you should cap, hit your flush draw to bust his AK, and say "Just like the internet!"

McGahee · #4 07-29-2005, 08:19 PM

I call because my hand isn't good right now, and we have zero folding equity with a raise. If he's a good player who knows that you're a good player, he's not trying to push you off a hand - he's clearly betting because he wants you to raise. He's not afraid of giving up a free card because he knows you'd bet the turn, so he just wants to 3-bet.

Looks to me like you're drawing dead to a flopped set and a turned boat, but I would call down because I rarely trust my reads *that* much.

How's that for weak-tight 3rd level thinking?

hizo1 · #5 07-29-2005, 08:22 PM

Hmm... if you say he's decent, to me it looks like he C/R'd to protect his K, which i think is more likely than a set at this point. I think (and I'm just a newb) just calling the turn to hit your flush is correct, because a K or a boat are definitely three betting you here.

Shillx · #6 07-29-2005, 08:26 PM

3 observations...

1) There is a 0% chance that I'm calling the river UI. With the amount of strength that I've shown on a drawless flop, he has to have at least a pair here.

2) If he doesn't have a king, I feel like my fold equity is VERY high. My play looks a lot like a king, and if he doesn't have one he has to think that he is drawing dead here a big % of the time.

3) The 2nd king makes it less likely that I actually hold a king in this spot. So he could easily be betting a weakish hand here to prevent giving a free card in this big pot.

Brad

Fantam · #7 07-29-2005, 08:27 PM

I suspect that you are better than most poker players drunk or not. Oh and did you see Ed Miller while you were there? and how much did you win playing poker? Sorry, got carried away. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Back to your hand.

Well you are obviously not going to fold with the nut flush draw, following your perhaps bold flop 3-bet. So are you going to raise the turn or just call for pot odds?

I suspect that SB called your preflop raise with a pocket pair, and that he check raised the flop, hoping that you had overcards and that he had the best hand. Also he may have considered you to be a weak player.

Somehow I suspect that you might be able to raise the turn for value, because if you caught an A you could end up counterfeiting a weaker 2 pair of his.

Thereagain if he really does have a decent hand like trip K's (or a full house), calling the turn to see if you make the nut flush makes sense.

So after all this deliberation, I am going to choose to call on the turn and hope to make the nut flush or pair the A.

thesharpie · #8 07-29-2005, 08:27 PM

Are you 3 betting the flop to get a free card?

baronzeus · #9 07-29-2005, 08:30 PM

Am I allowed to say I hate your flop line?

Shillx · #10 07-29-2005, 08:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Are you 3 betting the flop to get a free card?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and no. He doesn't have to have a big hand to check/raise this flop, and I feel like I can probably get him to fold a better hand quite often here with a turn bet after I 3-pop the flop. All of this does of course depend what falls. If I pick up something like a gutshot on 4th I will probably take my free card to guard against a check/raise. Any turn blank is getting bet.

Brad