High VP$IP bad for bankroll?

[groo]

I just finished up at 3 Crypto tables with VP$IP's of 34, 39 and 46.....I got crushed. I've been noticing that this is normal for me; however, on tables at around 20-25% I win most of the time. I'm currently 16/9/2.47. Does this point out any obvious flaw? I understand there will be more variance with fishier tables, and it could be just a run of bad cards, but I'm losing almost everytime I sit down at a table like this.

No need to be courteous with your answers, feel free to flame away [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Bizot]

it might be that you aren't defending your hands well enough in those and letting weaker draws catch up to you? Your stats look fine just try to watch for the signs the fish will give you that say "hey i just catch a whooper" and play accordingly.

I get the same thing on fishy tables i either go up a ton or get just hammered.

[Vern]

It is variance, how many hands are we talking here? I think you just need to continue with a strong game against weak opponents and let the theory of large numbers work to your advantage. I would rather play that these tables, as in the long run they are way more profitable than tight tables. Tight/weak tables are easy to beat, but the BB/100 is lower than a nice multiway table.

One possiblity is that you are overvaluing high card value in multiway hands and not valuing suited connectors and small PP enough. Against a single opponent, I would rather have Ax because that Ace is a powerhouse against a lone opponent. Against 3+ opponents I would rather have a small PP or medium suited connectors than ATo. Big cards lose value quickly with each additional opponent after the first that you play against. Suited connectors and small PPs need large fields to be real money makers. Just understand why you play what in each game and either is beatable, I just think the loose games are long term bigger winners, but the tighter tables are easier on the psyche because there are not any notable 'bad beats'. Remember, bad beats mean you are in a great game.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert at any of this.

[milesdyson]

You may win more hands at the tight tables, but you'll win more money at the loose tables. If this were over like 100k hands, then you might be onto something about your play.

[Jules22]

if i hear one more complaint about a table being too loose im gonna cry. i cant find a non rock garden 1/2 full table [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[groo]

lol.....sorry jules, not whining, just confused and trying to figure it out.

Been contemplating the situations I'm losing in for the last 12 hrs and they seem to fall into two categories, 1) sometimes good hands lose, especially at high variance tables, and 2) over defending mediocre hands against a lack of aggression (i.e pre flop ATo raise has four callers, rainbow rag flop checked around to me on button, I bet, three folds one call, turn rag, checked to me I bet thinking he has nothing and has to fold to aggression, he calls, repeat for river, he shows a pair of rags usually caught on turn or river. I throw something, scream loudly and type nh) These people rarely bet and there always seems to one that won't fold. Obviously, when I catch this is great, when I don't it is costly. This game sure is easy when you get good cards, lol.

This is over about 12k hands and has been consistant enough that I am reluctant to chalk it up soley to variance (don't things need to vary to call it variance?) So, I think you are right Vern, I need to pay more attention to what I'm playing against who, which probably means dropping from 3 tables to 2 or maybe one, so I can focus a little better.

Thanks for the input

[detruncate]

You need to be selective when deciding whether to bet whiffed overcards into multiple opponents. Following up on the turn is often a good idea when you're down to one opponent, but you should usually then take the free showdown if you have position -- it's part of the point of betting the turn (seeing the showdown without having to put any more money into the pot).

It's not enough to have the best hand on the river... you have to be a favourite when called. Ask yourself:

1) what worse hands will call?
2) what better hands will fold?

Folding out hands that you would have beaten anyway is pointless. If they've gotten that far, they probably aren't folding any piece of the board. Not too many opponents will regularly call down with A high (especially kicker < T). Usually a bad recipe for a river bet UI.