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  #21  
Old 09-24-2004, 08:28 PM
tolbiny tolbiny is offline
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Default Re: Leading the People to War

While i appreciate the quote from my cousin, Neville isn't exactly a guy i want defending the process i have chosen. He was pretty blind (retrospectively) to what Hitler was doing, and it could have saved a lot of lives by being more assertive in that situation.
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  #22  
Old 09-24-2004, 08:30 PM
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
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Default GWB is wrong, as usual

GWB > : "The war on terror is like the war on cancer, or the war on crime, or the war on rats in a big city. You do well by minimizing the cancer deaths, the crime, or the rats, but you never can eliminate them completely."

ThaSaltCracka > : "I rarely agree with GWB, but what he said here is right on, however unfortunate that answer may see."

No, GWB is wrong.

1. Comparing terrorism to natural disasters or illnesses dehumanizes the problem (when it is quite obviously a human problem and not something between, say, Zeus and Athena) and places its solution outside human capabilities. Note that the first step in getting irrational about a situation is to assess its players in abstract or fantastical terms.

2. "Wars Against Terror" have existed before -- and almost all of them had an "ending", quite unlike how GWB described things, in his facile manner. The terror unleashed by the IRA was ultimately not like "cancer" or the "plague", as GWB would have it (and as the British authorities at the time were claiming). The terror unleashed by ETA on the people of Spain is not like some crazy rats infesting a building: the very terrorism of the ETA defeated their objective (the independence of the Basque country) since so many Basques turned away in disgust from the concept of independence. The terror os the Russian original nihilists was defeated. The terror of the Jewish paramilitary organisations during the 1940s has ended (because it was vindicated!) while the terror of the Palestinian suicide bombers will end when the (very real) grievances of the Palestinians are addressed - finally - even in a manner that is distant from what the terrorists envisage (eg annihilation of Israel).

...Let me go deep to what GWB is saying : he is saying that the war against terror will be endless. Which neatly coincides with the time period through which GWB and his ilk want to see their ideology and methods ruling over America.

(They may get four more years pretty soon, at the very least. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])
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  #23  
Old 09-24-2004, 09:58 PM
wacki wacki is offline
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Default Re: Leading the People to War



[/ QUOTE ]
"France is not pacifist. We are not anti-American either. We are not just going to use our veto to nag and annoy the US. But we just feel that there is another option, another way, another more normal way, a less dramatic way than war, and that we have to go through that path. And we should pursue it until we’ve come [to] a dead end, but that isn’t the case."

Jacques Chirac, 2003

[/ QUOTE ]

Until then, we will sell them weapons, violate the UN resolution we voted for, corrupt the oil for food program, and continue to defend Iraq as long as they owe us money.
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  #24  
Old 09-24-2004, 11:25 PM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
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Default Re: GWB is wrong, as usual

Cyrus there is one thing you are forgetting. The ETA and IRA had/have concrete objectives which could ostensibly be solved through negotiation etc. The Palestinian problem, to some degree, the same (hopefully)

Jihad Warriors however have no meetable goals or objectives. Nothing will satisfy them but expulsion of all infidels from Arab lands and purification of their holy soil and institution of Sharia and restoration of the Caliphate and the spread and pre-eminence of Islamic Theocracy. In keeping with all of this is their burning desire to DESTROY the West, the land of the Infidels and the source of the corruption of Islamic virtues and Islamic women (not to mention the source of the ideas which give Islamic women to consider that maybe they oughtn't to be so oppressed in their native lands--which itself is strong heresy of another important sort to many Arab men of those lands).

So yes, Cyrus, GWB is right: this war will be endless as long as there are Islamic Jihadist Kooks running loose over the face of the Earth who believe that killing infidels and forcing the world to be subjugated to Islam is Allah's will.
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2004, 11:35 PM
Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Default Re: Leading the People to War

[ QUOTE ]
Aslo- The military action in the "war on drugs" thing worked really well, and the education programs did nothing at all.


[/ QUOTE ]

If we had executed them on the spot, bulldozed their families homes and bombed their neighborhoods then the result might have been different. Let's first kill a few hundred thousand more Arab terrorists and see how things turn out.

Jimbo
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  #26  
Old 09-24-2004, 11:44 PM
Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Default Re: Leading the People to War

[ QUOTE ]
Uhh, like Europe.

Or did England invade Ireland and I just missed the news?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are too young to have read the news in the prime of that battle. Many IRA terrorists were executed in a military manner. Not dubbing a military action an official war does not make it any less like a war. Just query a few vets who served in Vietnam or Korea.


Jimbo
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2004, 12:18 AM
tolbiny tolbiny is offline
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Default Re: GWB is wrong, as usual

So yes, Cyrus, GWB is right: this war will be endless as long as there are Islamic Jihadist Kooks running loose over the face of the Earth who believe that killing infidels and forcing the world to be subjugated to Islam is Allah's will.


But GWB is wrong in the idea that killing each and every last one is the fastest and best way to end this.
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  #28  
Old 09-25-2004, 12:19 AM
tolbiny tolbiny is offline
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Default Re: Leading the People to War

Jimbo-
I read this, and reread it, and i am not sure so i will just ask-
Sarcasitic post (mine was)- is yours sarcastic, yes or no?
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  #29  
Old 09-25-2004, 12:29 AM
pokerjo22 pokerjo22 is offline
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Default Re: Leading the People to War

I guess my point was that what brought it to an end was dialogue, not war.
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  #30  
Old 09-25-2004, 12:33 AM
Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Default Re: Leading the People to War

[ QUOTE ]
I guess my point was that what brought it to an end was dialogue, not war.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good point but without the many years of killing on both sides would dialogue have worked? Obviously not or else the sensible thing would have been to never begin killing each other in the first place.

For dialogue to be successful you must compromise. How do you suggest we compromise with religious zealots who believe all infidels should die?

Jimbo
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