Interesting flop decision, Super Tuesday

[adanthar]

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Well, first off, I really doubt you're against AK if the player is reasonable. What reasonable player min-raises with AK in SB against a caller and a raiser?

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Someone with a min-reraising range of AA-QQ, AK who knows that 90% of 2+2'ers and other TAG's can't handle a minreraise to save their lives and will fold getting great odds, allowing him to take down the pot even when he horribly misses.

[niin]

pet peeve alert

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its a mute point..

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it's MOOT. It's a MOOT point. Mute means silent. Moot means irrelevant or of no practical importance, and it used to mean an unresolved matter or one that was open to debate, but that meaning has fallen by the wayside.

/scream

[danger_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, first off, I really doubt you're against AK if the player is reasonable. What reasonable player min-raises with AK in SB against a caller and a raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone with a min-reraising range of AA-QQ, AK who knows that 90% of 2+2'ers and other TAG's can't handle a minreraise to save their lives and will fold getting great odds, allowing him to take down the pot even when he horribly misses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but wouldn't this same clever player (you're giving him a lot of credit) push the flop? That's the only way he's going to "take down the pot even when he horribly misses" which he would have here. It sounds like you're giving him credit for being one type of player pre-flop, and one type post flop. Hmm... This sounds more confrontational then I mean it to, btw.

[adanthar]

I don't think he counted on donk calling two cold.

[jaym96822]

Hmm, this is a very interesting line that I've rarely considered. The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. You're absolutely right about the downside risk, you'll get stacked if you're wrong anyway, so giving a free card to 7 outs is well worth the additional chips you win if he bluffs the turn.

I like the check behind. Obviously you fold to the turn bet if an A or J come, but what do you do under each of the following scenarios:

Blank falls and he checks.

Spade falls and he pushes.

For that matter, do you push in response to a turn bet if a blank falls or do you smooth call and try to gain additional chips by dodging the 7 outs on the river?

[jaym96822]

While AA and KK are possible, I do not think they are likely. A good player who 3 bets pre-flop OOP is highly unlikely to check a dangerous flop into two players. With the pot that size and given the chip stacks behind, the AA or KK would be more concerned with winning the pot immediately rather than allowing someone with 7, 8, or 9 outs a free card. It's much worse than adanthar's situation because the AA or KK doesn't know which outs will hurt. Spade flush? A, K, Q, J, T, or 9 for a straight, two pair, or trips? It could even be the 7 of clubs that kills your hand when the guy turns a set and proceeds to stack you.

JJ is a possibility, but not for this particular player. For this guy or any good player, it is a VERY weak move to check that flop first to act after being the pre-flop 3 bettor. Playing that way will not get you deep in 1000+ player fields during large events.

[adanthar]

It depends on the exact card because the donk is also still technically in the hand, so (for example) if a spade hits and they check to me, I have to push. Actually, if he checks any turn, I may as well push now because I'm not getting anything else out of him at this point unless he hits.

If he pushed on a spade, I'd assume an As semibluff and call.

(BTW, results: <font color="white"> I hit the Qs on the turn, he bet 300, the donk folded, I pushed, he thought, evidently felt pot committed at over 4:1 and called with AK, no spade. </font> )