Nice flop, bad turn and river

[Ulysses]

Normal NorCal 15-30

Folded to CO-1, who limps. He's a relatively new player who seems straightforward, passive, and somewhat tight (based on the number of hands he has played, not what he has shown down). CO folds. I find K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] on the button and raise. SB and BB fold and CO-1 calls. Since this is a normal NorCal game, that means BB must have had 72o.

Flop of Q [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

He bets. I raise. He 3-bets. I call.

Turn 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

Not what I want to see, but whatever. He checks. I bet. He raises. I 3-bet. He 4-bets. I call.

River Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

Great. Even better. He checks. I consider things for a short while, then bet. He calls.

Thoughts?

[mikelow]

First question--why no four-bet on the flop? I think that would have helped find where you're at on this hand.

As for the turn, heaven help you. As for the river, maybe he has KT also!

Methinks CO-1 has J9, and he "puked" when the queen paired on the river.

[mike l.]

"River Q Great. Even better. He checks. I consider things for a short while, then bet. He calls."

not sure what youre thinking here. he's completely unlikely to fold a better hand or even KT if he has that (4 bets on the paired turn by him of course means he probably doesnt have that and usually has you drawing dead).

the chances you are beat are huge so you lose that hopeless river bet many many times here. he makes a mistake by thinking you could have a Q that beats his J9 or whatever and he checks. he gives you a very generous free showdown. so then you bet your dead straight. horrible. i hope im wrong in this case and he has Th8h, but play it over 100 times and you lose a bundle.

good read on the bb btw.

[Ulysses]

not sure what youre thinking here.

You know, right as I was throwing out those chips, that's what I was asking myself.

When the turn comes and he raises, I put him on a ton of hands I beat. AJ, AQ, big heart draw, QT, JT, A9, AT the list goes on. When he 4-bets, I think there's a decent chance I'm still ahead but a good chance he might have the full house already w/ J9 or Q9.

When the river pairs the queen, just about every hand I put him on at the turn with the exception of AJ and AT beat me. I was pretty sure I was beaten. Yet, somehow I convinced myself that he might actually have KT as well and throw that away or maybe he actually does have something like AJ and will call me down. I think part of my brain was actually saying - hey, bet and he'll lay down a 9.

Anyway, I thought it was a bad play and just wanted to make sure. For the record, while dimwitted, I'm not a complete idiot - I mainly just post hands I think I screwed up here.

Oh yeah, results. He called, said "dammit, I think you got me on the river," and showed T8o for the flopped smaller straight. I guess he wasn't as tight or passive as I thought.

[Ulysses]

First question--why no four-bet on the flop? I think that would have helped find where you're at on this hand.

Heads-up in this type of situation, I think 4-betting this flop will often lead to check-call,check-call on the turn and river the many times I have the nuts 'til the end. I don't feel the information gained by 4-betting here makes up for the potential loss of bets on later streets, but I might be wrong.

As for the turn, heaven help you.

Well-said. I was still confident I was ahead when he raised. When he 4-bet, heaven help me was exactly what I was thinking.

[PokerPrince]

Wow you made it out of that one!? Good for you man! I'de be wiping the sweat from my brow after that hand.

PokerPrince