J5s in the BB hand

[happyjaypee]

Hi all,


This hand happenned in my wednesday night home game. 0.25$/0.50$ blinds NL HE, we were 7-handed at the time. I'm in the BB WITH J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. (That will please Guy McSucker [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

EP, MP and CO limp, SB complet, I check.

Pot: 2.50$
Flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB,(LAP) lead at the pot for 2$, I call. Folded to CO (solid) who make it 6$, SB call...

<font color="green"> SB is very loose agressive and would bet as little as middle pair here so I call. EP and MP folding diminish the posibility of other flush draws. CO's raise here is probably from a hand like JT to AT. I know he would have raised PP of Tens or better preflop so I discount those. 99 and 22 are still possible but remote. He loves Suited connecters too so T9 is a possibility. He may also be semi-bluffing a hand like KQ or a A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] but here I know he'll ALWAYS take the free card on turn if checked too. Now, since SB called, it's 4$ more to me with 16.50$ in the pot and I call.</font>

Comments so far?


Pot: 20.50$
Turn: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB and I check to CO who now bet 8$, SB fold and it's on me.

<font color="green"> Ok, now I know he's not on a flush draw since he did'nt toke the free card so my flush will be good if I make it. the J could not have make him a str8: He would have raised AK preflop, He would have just called the flop whit 87 (Except is it's 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) and He does'nt play Q8. I narrow is hand to AT, KT, QT, JT, T9.

I can beat AT, KT and QT, I need the flush to beat JT and any J, 5, 2 or [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] will beat T9. So now I think my pair of J with 5 kicker may be good. But I don't want to raise him here and cost myself the chance to outdraw him if he play back at me so I decide to call the 8$ for the 28.50$ pot.</font>.

Still with me?


Pot: 36.50$
River: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I chk, he bet 4$ [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]...

<font color="green"> Ok, he either does'nt like is hand much now witch would match my read or it's a trap bet to get me to raise him. So basically no point in raising here as he won't fold winner and won't call whit losers. I call.</font>

Pot: 44.50$

He call "two pairs" and shows the flop top two: T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I show my J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for a runner runner better two pairs... Boy he was pissed... lol


We discussed the hand afterward and even though I pulled a major rnr rnr, I still don't think I play the hand badly given my read and the fact he is predictable. We agreed to post it here to have your opinion.


So, what do you guys think?

Thx


-Happy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[ALL1N]

Well played.

[pemberton]

hi happyjaypee,

you forgot to post the stack sizes for this hand, which the Good Folk Who Know Their Stuff will need to reply properly...

I'm a Know Nothing Newbie, but for what it's worth I think your opponent made a mistake on the flop. That pot sized $6 bet looks too low to me with straight/flush/overcards to his two pair to worry about.

By the way, the range of hands you put him on on the flop includes KQ, but by the turn you seem to have discounted that?
Pemberton.

[happyjaypee]

[ QUOTE ]
you forgot to post the stack sizes for this hand

[/ QUOTE ]


Doh! I had around 45$ or 50$, he had the same.


[ QUOTE ]
By the way, the range of hands you put him on on the flop includes KQ

[/ QUOTE ]


I ment QJ, not KQ, for openender plus two overcards. But since he did'nt toke the free cardon turn, I disregarded that possibility.



-Happy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Shaun]

I seem to be in the minority here but I think you played this correctly. You can't be looking for monsters under the bed everytime someone bets and you have a non-nut flush draw. Limon may be right if you are playig against all-world tight-a** competition, but against typical small buy-in players I would play this way much of the time.

Calling this down accomplishes two things: Winning the pot, and establishing a non-rock image. If you only play nut flush draws you will miss out on huge amounts of money, as long as you can laydown flushes when u suspect a higher one. There is nothing that puts people on tilt more than a hand like J5s sucking them out when they had top two. If you never make plays like this you will miss out on a lot of action IMO.

[AJo Go All In]

of course you played it fine. on the turn he's giving you about 3.5-1 on your flush draw, which is almost enough even if you know he has a made straight on the turn(assuming he will pay off a bet on the river). given that you may have the best hand, or that you likely have 14 outs to improve to the best hand, you have an easy call on the turn. obviously when you're getting 10-1 on a river call it's a no brainer. your friend did not protect his hand. his small bet on the turn is terrible especially when the board is JT9x with 2 diamonds. his hand got counterfeited on the river, but if he read you well, he should have known that a big bet on the river would have won the pot for him. your friend played the hand badly. you played it fine (i would have bet out on the turn, but your play was fine).

[Zag]

I am joining the crowd. You played great, he played lousy. His bet on the turn was lame, and should have been a small overbet of the pot.

One question: Did you really make that precise a read (all your cool, green commentary) or is some of it after-the-fact rationalization? If you were really as confidant as you sounded, especially that the turn could not have given him a straight, then a big check-raise on the turn might have been a good play. You had top pair and a flush draw on what had to be a scary looking board for him.

[happyjaypee]

[ QUOTE ]
One question: Did you really make that precise a read (all your cool, green commentary) or is some of it after-the-fact rationalization?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my actual thought process during the hand. Note however that I did'nt put him precisely on T9 but rather on a range of hand of witch 75% I could beat.

AT, KT, QT = 12 possibilities each for 36 hands
JT = 9 possibilities
T9s (He don't play T9o) = 2 possibilities

That's 47 hands. And I thought I could beat 36 of them, about 75%.

But he really DID have one in the 25% hand that beated me...


-Happy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the BB WITH J5. (That will please Guy McSucker )


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't tell you how pleased I was. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Until...

[ QUOTE ]

he would have just called the flop whit 87


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh well. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Nice to play with you the other day! Don't go telling everyone my handle on Stars now, will you?

Guy.

[tewall]

Some questions.

You said that he would have raised with AK, but should that have been KQ? (it's KQ that makes the straight, AK doesn't do anything).

Do you know that SB is not on a flush draw? (You implied this, I'm guessing because SB wouldn't lead at the pot on the flop with a flush draw)

Finally it looks to me like you could have raised on the river, given your read, as you were sure he didn't have a hand that could beat yours. If he did have T9, he certainly would have called a reasonable sized raise. If you weren't sure of your read (he might be sandbagging a better hand) then you have to call.