Flop nut flush- How to extract the most bets?

carniplant · #1 07-30-2004, 12:50 AM

UTG+2 is average player a little loose and agressive,BB is classic calling station ,BB is weird he either folds or calls down, never raises very easy to steal pots of him on flop, How do i get the most out of this hand?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP3 raises, Button folds, BB calls, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero caps, MP3 calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (18.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.75 BB

radek2166 · #2 07-30-2004, 12:53 AM

i raise the river

cartoonsoldier · #3 07-30-2004, 01:14 AM

Raise that river man...and you have extracted a good amount of what you can.

carniplant · #4 07-30-2004, 01:21 AM

I guess i should have said this in the post, I'm pretty sure both MP3 and BB will fold to 2 cold , however i near 100% sure they will call 1 bet each.Thats why i din't know if I should raise the river or just call.

JEM7VSBL · #5 07-30-2004, 01:24 AM

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i raise the river

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i would just go for the overcall in this situation, unless his opponents were just plain dumb and you know that they'd both call his two big bets cold. you're only looking to win one more bet from the bettor as opposed to two bets from the last two players. the last two are committed to this pot and aren't going to fold to one bet.

JEM7VSBL · #6 07-30-2004, 01:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess i should have said this in the post, I'm pretty sure both MP3 and BB will fold to 2 cold , however i near 100% sure they will call 1 bet each.Thats why i din't know if I should raise the river or just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

heheh, you beat me to it! i must type to slow....or write too darn much....your overcall was the right play here. worst case with your raise, you win no more bets (all players fold).

cartoonsoldier · #7 07-30-2004, 01:40 AM

Lets say UTG will most probably call the river raise. You are giving away 2 bets hoping that if they call your raise you can win more bets.

To me raising this river everytime seems to be much more EV.

Jstyal · #8 07-30-2004, 01:57 AM

In this situation I would normally raise the river also, but only if I'm fairly certain that it will not cause others to fold. Since you slowplayed the flush from the onset, I believe raising the river would have been appropriate here.

JEM7VSBL · #9 07-30-2004, 01:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Lets say UTG will most probably call the river raise. You are giving away 2 bets hoping that if they call your raise you can win more bets.

To me raising this river everytime seems to be much more EV.

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at lower limits, raising the river might be ok, as more players are willing to calling 2 bets cold to be in the showdown. but when you move up in limits and players do a little more "thinking", they'll know they're beat and fold to your raise. it's not a matter of you "giving away" 2 bets here. you know you've won the hand. it's trying to win the most bets. if you raise, you're likely to win only one more bet from the raiser. if you call, you'll win two more bets from the overcalls. two is usually more than one. sometimes you'll win a few more bets raising...but i think the call is correct here.

kureido · #10 07-30-2004, 02:31 AM

i raise the river

I think I'd do like the hero did here and go for the overcalls rather than the raise, assuming of course that MP3 and BB aren't so loose that they'll cold-call a raise like this on the river. If that's the case, by all means, raise if you think there's a really good chance they'll cold-call it.

I think with typical players, MP3 and BB would fold to this raise and UTG+2 would call, netting you 2 BB for an investment of 2BB, whereas going for the overcalls would more than likely net you 3BB for an investment of 1BB.

As far as flop play goes, this has been said in many other posts -- generally the best way to disguise your hand against microlimits players is to do the opposite of what they think you'd do; generally, they would slowplay a flopped flush, so come out betting on the flop and they'll have no idea what's going on. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Hopefully they'll think you're trying to pick it up right there and call you all the way to the river. This obviously depends on your reads of the other players, though. If you think there's a good chance you'll scare them off betting here, don't.

I'm not sure about the turn. The limp-reraise was good as it played out; it was lucky that MP3 decided to raise, but I don't think you can count on that happening often enough to limp here. I'm not sure what to do in this case, really; you certainly want callers, and raising UTG+2's bet may scare them off before they have an opportunity to put money into the pot, but you also certainly don't want to let them see the river for 1 BB when you've got the nut flush. I'll defer to those wiser than I. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-b