playing a rock?

tiltaholic · #1 07-25-2005, 09:30 AM

SB is the precious. He's even better than a standard loose passive, because he sees the flop 75% of the time (never raising) and folds the flop when it doesn't please him. He's not tricky. He's like cashback on Discover card, only better.

CO is a tight aggressive player. He was a money-bag (oh-no!!). But really tight. And only aggressive when he has a monster, like, for example, flopping two pair or a full house. He was 9/6 preflop, and I suspect his aggression numbers are faulty (artificially high) since I saw him flop 2 monsters...and otherwise he's been fairly timid. Against me, I saw him check call down top pair king kicker on a board of blanks. (I had top pair queen kicker and raised his flop bet)

So. What to do you think?

Party Poker Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
6 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, SB folds, Hero raises, CO calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets,

DRKEVDC · #2 07-25-2005, 09:48 AM

I would put rock on a big pair, KK, QQ. Your check raise should get him thinking you hit your set on the flop. The question here is on your read, do you think you can get the rock to laydown a big pair?

tiltaholic · #3 07-25-2005, 09:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would put rock on a big pair, KK, QQ. Your check raise should get him thinking you hit your set on the flop. The question here is on your read, do you think you can get the rock to laydown a big pair?

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i'd say there is a zero percent chance he is laying down a big pair here.

TripleH68 · #4 07-25-2005, 10:16 AM

Even to a total rock your flop raise has to look suspicious. I would guess CO is calling this turn bet with just about anything.

Now when a brick or scare card hits the river will he lay down his hand?

In a blind/steal situation I have to think it is less likely, but certainly possible.

Aaron W. · #5 07-25-2005, 10:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
CO is a tight aggressive player. He was a money-bag (oh-no!!). But really tight. And only aggressive when he has a monster, like, for example, flopping two pair or a full house. He was 9/6 preflop, and I suspect his aggression numbers are faulty (artificially high) since I saw him flop 2 monsters...and otherwise he's been fairly timid. Against me, I saw him check call down top pair king kicker on a board of blanks. (I had top pair queen kicker and raised his flop bet)

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it. I don't think he's going to call down with unimproved overcards. But you may have to bet the river to get him to drop his AK or AQ. If he has an overpair, he's not going to muck it and you're going to lose money.

Have you seen a steal-raise out of him before? Since he's playing so tight, I think you might be able to narrow his raising standards. AA-99, AK-AT, KQ-KJ (106 hands = 8%) works as a starting point. If he's position-aware, then you might need to add a little bit more to it (but not much). Out of these, 73 are unimproved overcards, so you expect to steal this pot away about 75% of the time by the river. I like those odds...

DeathDonkey · #6 07-25-2005, 10:17 AM

Yuck. This is closer to a preflop fold than anything else.

-DeathDonkey

#7 07-25-2005, 10:22 AM

Grunching here.

I'm not sure I agree with your read on CO. If he only raises with two-pair or a full house, doesn't that make him weak-tight?

Since you've already had him check call down a pair with a good kicker, what makes you think you can get him to lay down whatever he has right now? Also, what are you representing with your check-raise? I don't think he'll believe that you played 5 4 for one bet out of the BB. If you're representing a flopped set, I think he's still gonna want to see it. I think he's likely to put you on a flush draw and you may get more than you can handle if the 3rd [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] doesn't show up.

I probably do this wrong, but if I'm gonna try and make a move on this flop, I lead it. If a rockish player calls, then I know I'm in a rough spot and start looking for escape routes.

For this one though, I think I'd let this go on the flop unless I had a more specific read that CO would raise overcards worse than A J. If I had a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I'd be much more comfortable making a play for this pot.

Sasnak · #8 07-25-2005, 10:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yuck. This is closer to a preflop fold than anything else.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

???

topspin · #9 07-25-2005, 10:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yuck. This is closer to a preflop fold than anything else.

[/ QUOTE ]

AJs against a possible blind steal from the CO? I'd appreciate if you could share your reasoning, because this is an insta-call for me.

I think it's fine. He's likely to call your turn bet so you'll usually have to fire again on the river. But you could easily be inducing him to fold a better unimproved ace. You might even be ahead against a hand like KQ or KJ, which helps offset those times you're up against a big pocket pair.

parappa · #10 07-25-2005, 10:47 AM

I think this is good so far, but what's our river plan? If we check/fold, I think that we've put to much into the pot, so I think we have to bet a blank.