a weird but cool hand, haha

chio · #1 08-05-2004, 10:53 AM

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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (15 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (15.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button caps, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 28.50 BB
Main Pot: 28.50 BB, between Hero, Button and SB. > Pot won by Hero (28.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows Ks Qs (flush, king high).
Hero shows Js 9s (straight flush, jack high).
Button shows As 7c (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 28.50 BB. 

a couple questions:
(1) anyone like the preflop raise
(2) who bets the flop (i thought a c/r here was pretty much the correct play)
(3) if you were button here, would you have capped the river

Mark H · #2 08-05-2004, 11:05 AM

#1 no
#2 Ck raise looks good
#3 I cap with the A
Mark H

EverettKings · #3 08-05-2004, 11:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]

(1) anyone like the preflop raise
(2) who bets the flop (i thought a c/r here was pretty much the correct play)
(3) if you were button here, would you have capped the river

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Raising J9s into 5 callers? Not my cup of tea. With that hand I want a cheap flop against lots of opponents. 4 limpers and a FREE flop is ideal.

2) I'd bet the flop. I rarely have faith in limp-callers to bet when checked to, and you're likely to get 3-4 more bets in the pot by betting. Going for a check raise is fine, though, I just have less confidence in it here than you do.

3)Um, yes. He has the nut flush and the board is unpaired. Unless the board is T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], you can't slow down out of fear of a straight flush. Sure, once in a blue moon one will beat you, but that's so rare that you will be missing bets the vast majority of the time.

Kakafoni · #4 08-05-2004, 11:13 AM

1) I don't raise here, even with 4 opponents. Maybe I would raise with JTs or QJs..

2) I would bet the flop here to disguise my flush and str8 draw and to build a larger pot if I hit.

3) From an outside wiev I'd say I wouldn't cap, but if I were in that situation I'd overrate my chances with the nut 1-card flush. The fact that 3 players are fighting for it is kind of scary, but the SB might as well be a fishy guy without a clue.

//Marcus

chio · #5 08-05-2004, 11:16 AM

i usually dont raise preflop here, but i thought it'd mix it up once - it disguises my hand very well, my hand plays very well multiway, and usually (not in this case) it only costs me one SB more to change it up

the river i'd usually cap here with nut flush also, it just seemed like he should know that's exactly what he's representing, and he's getting 3bet on the river in a 3way huge pot, i.e. i'm not bluffing, i guess my thinking of "how could he have capped the river" is just a case of giving my opponents too much credit for thinking logically

btw, he took almost the whole time before capping

Apocalypse · #6 08-05-2004, 11:29 AM

1) why on earth raise with 5 players to disguise your hand here. On the flop, ppl that hit(be it a pair or a draw) will stick (and someones going to hit) and ppl that miss will fold. There is absolutely zero value in "disguising" your hand.

2) i favor betting for checkraising here. You wanna build a pot to draw for and see showdown only if you hit. Betting is the easiest way to get it done.

3) of course you cap your nutflush

fnord_too · #7 08-05-2004, 12:52 PM

seems my view is the same as everyone elses, I hate being one of the crowd...

1. no no no no never. Weak hand, lots of callers, no chance of folding anyone, bad position, and the limp reraise from MP really drives the point home.

2. I like ther check raise thought because the person to your immediate left is who you are expecting to bet, and you definitely want to trap all the people between you for another bet.

3. The only thing that beats the Ace is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]j [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] an who would be raising from the button preflop with any of those? I cap.

icepoker · #8 08-05-2004, 12:57 PM

This preflop raise of yours is just silly, what do you mean your hand plays well multiway? It's a crappy hand, the probability of you winning is most likely < 20% and you're out of position. Then when someone makes it three it just blows up in you face.

If you want to mix it up, do so where you have a chance of taking it down or at least have position.

Naturally you cap here with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] simply because it's +EV against most opponents (may not be against you but it's unlikely your opponent had that info).

tripdad · #9 08-05-2004, 01:05 PM

1) your preflop raise is not horrible. not that it disguises your hand, but rather, it makes it harder for your opponents to read your raises in the future. it isn't something you should do on a regular basis though.

2) check raise is better because the preflop 3-bettor is on your left. he will bet most of the time, and if you get callers, you can raise and hook them all for 2 or more bets on the flop.

3) most definitely.

cheers!

kyro · #10 08-05-2004, 02:09 PM

i'm with tripdad. I don't "hate" the raise, but it's not something I think I would ever do. If you think it's a hand you can let go if you don't hit hard, then go ahead.