Getting aggro shorthanded on the flop

[topspin]

My shorthand game still sucks so I usually like to move if the table gets too empty, but here's a hand I played before my blind came up. I suspect that 6-handed I should raise this PF if I'm going to come in, right? Aside from that, any thoughts on the flop raise? The pot is large enough that I'd call anyways with my overcard/inside straight potential, and I figure if I raise I should be able to get the PFR to lay down something like AK/AJ or maybe even JJ/QQ.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls, MP calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop: (9 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises...</font>

[zram21]

Even short handed I would muck KJo UTG. However if you are going to play it you should absolutely raise it preflop. Postflop I would just call the flop and hope the button doesn't raise behind you.

I like your thinking of trying to get the button to lay down a hand that dominates you, but he is almost certainly not going to lay down a big pair here. Even worse than that though is the fact that the SB very well may have a T and if he does you are drawing very thin.

Take one off on the flop and fold unimproved.

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
Even short handed I would muck KJo UTG. However if you are going to play it you should absolutely raise it preflop. Postflop I would just call the flop and hope the button doesn't raise behind you.

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Note that 6-handed you are effectively in MP if you follow Ed's guideline that you consider the first 4 people to have folded. It's only the converter that's labelling it as UTG. The odds of someone having a better hand are actually smaller than if you were in MP2 in a full ring game.

I agree that open-raising would have been lots better than limping, but folding seems a bit tight.

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I like your thinking of trying to get the button to lay down a hand that dominates you, but he is almost certainly not going to lay down a big pair here. Even worse than that though is the fact that the SB very well may have a T and if he does you are drawing very thin.

Take one off on the flop and fold unimproved.

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I see the flop as raise or fold; I don't think you can afford to just call here. If I can't force out button, than I'm drawing either thin or dead against all sensible hands that he and SB combined could have. If I hit one of your overcard "outs" odds are good I'm going to make a very expensive 2nd-best hand.

[SlantNGo]

Here is my attempt at a SH starting hands chart based on the SSH chart (posted in the HUSH forum about a month ago):

[zram21]

[ QUOTE ]
Note that 6-handed you are effectively in MP if you follow Ed's guideline that you consider the first 4 people to have folded. It's only the converter that's labelling it as UTG. The odds of someone having a better hand are actually smaller than if you were in MP2 in a full ring game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize what position you are in. I still think KJo is at best a marginal hand from that position. I am not saying playing it for a raise is terrible just that it is close and I would probably fold it preflop.

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I see the flop as raise or fold; I don't think you can afford to just call here. If I can't force out button, than I'm drawing either thin or dead against all sensible hands that he and SB combined could have. If I hit one of your overcard "outs" odds are good I'm going to make a very expensive 2nd-best hand.

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I disagree with this. Folding would be bad here. You are getting enough implied odds to draw to the gutshot alone. You want to see the turn cheaply here because as you said you are likely drawing very thin possibly to the Q alone. Trying to see it for one bet is the best option in my opinion.

[topspin]

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[ QUOTE ]
Note that 6-handed you are effectively in MP if you follow Ed's guideline that you consider the first 4 people to have folded.

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I realize what position you are in. I still think KJo is at best a marginal hand from that position. I am not saying playing it for a raise is terrible just that it is close and I would probably fold it preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't argue against KJo being marginal in MP. I'd limp it in a full game, but I wouldn't hate a fold. I'm curious if it's normally a fold for you in a full game too.

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I see the flop as raise or fold

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I disagree with this. Folding would be bad here. You are getting enough implied odds to draw to the gutshot alone. You want to see the turn cheaply here because as you said you are likely drawing very thin possibly to the Q alone. Trying to see it for one bet is the best option in my opinion.

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I didn't say that you should fold, only that I didn't like calling. I also felt that I didn't want to fold, because the odds were decent, although I think you have to discount the inside straight draw a bit because of the paired board. If I'm staying in, with the pot being large I think it's worth investing an extra bet if I can get Button to fold dominating overcards and buy some outs (which I think would be successful the majority of the time).

Buying outs is good if SB has a 9 or pocket underpair, bad if SB has a T. Perhaps someone smarter than me can comment on the relative likelihood of the two and hence the EV of this decision.