Is o8 a limpers game?

[Mendacious]

I play ALOT more PL than limit now, and it is my impression that Ribbo does too. That being said. I somewhat agree with his advice. I don't think you raise pre-flop in limit Omaha to eliminate opponents, you raise for value. In limit, when I enter a pot, I want it to be large, and I want a hand that can become the nuts. AA4x may not be the best example of such a hand, but that isn't really the issue.

I'm not sure why everyone decided to pile on him here for his style of writing. He posted a different opinion, I don't think it was a personal attack. I generally find that when he posts in one of these threads it is with the intention of helping the player, and most often good concise advice.

[Ironman]

There are a couple places where I think it is essential to raise preflop, but you won't find them happening much at your typical Party 1/2 full ring game.

When the game becomes short handed (5 players or less) means that you will probably find one limper and the blinds playing. If you are in the blinds and find yourself with a medium good hand...I like to raise it up.

When I've got a really good low hand at this same table, I will frequently just limp to bring as many people along for the ride as possible.

The second situation is actually very similar and every once in awhile I find it at the UB 2/4 and 3/6 games. The game for some reason gets really tight.

Late position last night in the cutoff, I found myself with a high pocket pair and an average low starting hand and did not raise...just limped. The blinds came along for the ride.

I lost control of that hand by not being aggressive early. It was a mistake.

Raising would have put the blinds on the defensive (maybe even got the SB to fold) and the hand would have played out much differently.

I'm not saying I would have won the pot, I might have even lost more, but there are good positional reasons at passive tables to raise.

Dave

[Drizztdj]

Bet only for value if you're raising pre-flop, but its my personal view that Omaha 8 is more of a post-flop game.

[FeliciaLee]

I'm not taking sides, because I'm sick enough to like both of you.

But in O8, I never think to myself, "I'm raising to eliminate opponents." I don't ever consider schooling in O8, in, fact, I always feel 'the more, the merrier.'

Now, had you said to raise so that you could use that A4 poor low to eliminate other, better low cards, like 23, that wanted to see a cheap flop, I could have gotten behind that statement easily.

Just my opinion, and I'm still playing the penny games, FWIW.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[pipes]

IMO Never raising preflop in O8b is a mistake that costs you alot of money.

In low limits, raising is mostly done for value in a late seat.

In shorthanded games you want to raise for value when you have a good hand in all positions as you will get calls. Also aggressive raising and 3 betting will win you shorthanded pots where you and your few opponents flop little.

In higher limit games, raising usually serves the same pupose as it does in hold'em..isolation, buying the button, taking the lead etc.

[k_squared]

FWIW My understanding of why it is not a good strategy to raise pre-flop in a high-low game like omaha is that hands run much closer in value than in hold'em. You simply never have as significant an advantage as AA does in hold'em. The flop changes everything by making the best starting hands into utter crap when the board comes high with a rainbow. Your hands value greatly depends on the flop, much more so than in hold'em. In hold'em an unimporved AA wins in Omaha an unimproved AA23ss typically does not.

k_squared

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW My understanding of why it is not a good strategy to raise pre-flop in a high-low game like omaha is that hands run much closer in value than in hold'em. You simply never have as significant an advantage as AA does in hold'em. The flop changes everything by making the best starting hands into utter crap when the board comes high with a rainbow. Your hands value greatly depends on the flop, much more so than in hold'em. In hold'em an unimporved AA wins in Omaha an unimproved AA23ss typically does not.

k_squared

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not called an 'understanding of Omaha', that's called an 'ignorance of omaha'. The sad thing is you really do believe what you are writing. AA23 is the single most profitable omaha/8 hand, and just because you're playing limit does not change this fact. Is it possible for you to spout any more meaningless drivel than this?

[Mendacious]

Well I might have put this a little differently... Ribbo appears slightly less patient than normal today.

The fact that one hand is not as much of a favorite pre-flop as some hands are in Holdem does not mean that you should not raise the hand for value pre-flop. What it actually means is that people should be LESS inclined to fold to your pre-flop raise because chances are they are not that big of an underdog. So in my view you definately do not raise in limit to chase. The question that remains is should you raise at all?

So far I have not heard a good arguement for why not! An edge is an edge. Moreover, the fact that the hands become much more well defined on the flop than in holdem is NOT a reason not to raise. If you are a better player, the fact that you know whether to fold or not on the flop will SAVE you money, not cost you money. So your raise will not lock you into poor play (however it may tempt your poorer opponent to stick with hands that are close, but hopelessly behind.

[BettyBoopAA]

Most posters seem to play in low limit games where many people see the flop and raising doesn't make the game tighter. In these games it is correct to raise before the flop for value. Very good hands run close to value but against bad players they're calling with junk anyway so you make them pay for their preflop mistake.
At higher stakes vs good players, one should raise to thin the field when you have a hand that plays better vs fewer opponents. In this game, you have to ask yourself will my raise knock out opponents and proceed accordingly.
It's a mistake to raise with A 2 hands if you knock out the A 3 before the flop and in tight games that's what happens.

[Mendacious]

fair enough.