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#1
12-08-2005, 10:22 PM
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More correct value bet marginal hand on river in small pot or big pot?
It it more correct value bet marginal hand on river in small pot or big pot?
It it more correct value bet marginal hand on river vs one player or two? I'm not looking for an absoulte answer but just what is more correct on average. 
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#2
12-08-2005, 10:51 PM
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Re: More correct value bet marginal hand on river in small pot or big pot?
I assume you mean that you have a hand that has some chance of winning, but it's less than 50%, and that you will fold if you are raised. Therefore, you bet in hopes of inducing the other players to fold. If they call, you have only a small chance of winning. If you don't bet, you will check, and fold if someone else bets.
People are more likely to call you in a large pot, which makes it less attractive to bet. On the other hand, they're likely to call you with weaker hands, which makes it more attractive to bet. Plus you win more when you win. Another consideration is with a large pot, it's less likely that the other players will check. On balance, I think the bet is better with a large pot. With two players your bet will get more respect. The middle player may fold with a pretty good hand, afraid that her hand could lose to one or the other remaining hands, and that the two hands might reraise each other. The last hand might fold because your raise into two hands shows extra strength. The check is much less likely to work against both players. Therefore, on balance, I prefer to raise with two other players versus one. My assumptions may not be exactly what you meant by the question, and of course there are many other variables that affect your decision.
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#3
12-09-2005, 02:59 AM
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Re: More correct value bet marginal hand on river in small pot or big pot?
Your answer is right on ...except for, errr...unless... What is he really asking? If a hand is marginal but still profitable then you value bet regardless of what the pot is or how many opponents you have.
I like, not only your answer, but your assumptions of what he should be asking. Vince
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#4
12-09-2005, 04:02 AM
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Re: More correct value bet marginal hand on river in small pot or big pot?
[ QUOTE ]
It it more correct value bet marginal hand on river in small pot or big pot? It it more correct value bet marginal hand on river vs one player or two? I'm not looking for an absoulte answer but just what is more correct on average. [/ QUOTE ] I would think that if you're in a large pot, you'd probably need a better than marginal hand to be in this situation. However, to answer the question, I'd say bet if you think you have a chance of making any of your opponents to fold. In a small pot, things are much more player/read dependent. As with everything in poker, "it depends...."
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#5
12-09-2005, 04:31 AM
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Re: More correct value bet marginal hand on river in small pot or big pot?
apparantly people stopped reading TOP...im shocked these posts come from 2p2ers in a poker theory forum. we need to nip this in the bud.
[ QUOTE ] I assume you mean that you have a hand that has some chance of winning, but it's less than 50%, and that you will fold if you are raised. [/ QUOTE ] this is called a bluff...if there's some chance you get called by a worse hand then its a "value bluff" [ QUOTE ] Therefore, you bet in hopes of inducing the other players to fold. If they call, you have only a small chance of winning. If you don't bet, you will check, and fold if someone else bets. [/ QUOTE ] player/read dependent but if you check you're inducing a bet, you better be prepared to CALL some of the time, especailly if its a big pot...but then you should bet. [ QUOTE ] People are more likely to call you in a large pot, which makes it less attractive to bet. On the other hand, they're likely to call you with weaker hands, which makes it more attractive to bet. [/ QUOTE ] straight outta mason's book: as calling frequency increases (pot size increases) your betting frequency should increase as well as those peopl eneed less to call with than they would have in a small pot which brings us to our next point: [ QUOTE ] Plus you win more when you win. [/ QUOTE ] this isn't even a consideration. you bet b/c you will be called by a worse hand over 50% of the time (mathematically, if you can assume NO CHANCE of a raise, then you only need to be likely to win WHEN CALLED >50% of the time). this is an expected value decision, if you stand to gain more from the bet than you lose int he long run you bet, period. how much you win is the SAME (or close...i.e. some bets have 80% value, some have 1% value etc...) [ QUOTE ] Another consideration is with a large pot, it's less likely that the other players will check. On balance, I think the bet is better with a large pot. [/ QUOTE ] no. people bet more in large pots b/c they want to win them. period. but yes its better to bet in a large pot. [ QUOTE ] With two players your bet will get more respect. The middle player may fold with a pretty good hand, afraid that her hand could lose to one or the other remaining hands, and that the two hands might reraise each other. The last hand might fold because your raise into two hands shows extra strength. The check is much less likely to work against both players. Therefore, on balance, I prefer to raise with two other players versus one. [/ QUOTE ] i dont exactly understand what you're saying here...we're talking about betting marginal hands, not bluffing... [ QUOTE ] My assumptions may not be exactly what you meant by the question, and of course there are many other variables that affect your decision. [/ QUOTE ] ok then... -Barron
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#6
12-09-2005, 09:30 AM
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Re: More correct value bet marginal hand on river in small pot or big pot?
[ QUOTE ]
this is called a bluff... i dont exactly understand what you're saying here...we're talking about betting marginal hands, not bluffing... [/ QUOTE ] I'm confused. I answered a question about betting marginal hands, and you say that's the same as bluffing. Then later in the same post you say the reverse. I don't think the names matter much. A pure bluff has no chance of winning if called, a marginal hand has a small chance, a value bet has a large chance. You can draw the lines wherever you like, and discuss in-between hands like value bluffs, but the important question is what to do. While there are many considerations, as a very broad generality, all other things being equal, I think betting a marginal hand on the river is a better action in a large multiway pot than a small pot against one player. Do you disagree?
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