How important is math in poker?

[Fabian]

[ QUOTE ]
Not that important - And here is why;
When you have learned the basics the mathematics isnt that important after all. It is of much more importance to know how to play a hand than to know WHY it should be played in a certain way...

I play 30 60 fixed limit and 3 6 no limit and I RARELY think about math. The only thing I keep in mind while playing are the odds for specific hands probability to hit(aprox)when not being on a draw - and how much I can get paid if I hit When I draw.

That reasoning leads into what I believe is the main part of a good poker game - Psychology...

In other words: If i hit my draw how much will that specific person be willing to pay me - AND - will that justify me calling (raising for foldequity etc etc)??

This applies much more to no limit than limit though.

I am also aware of that everything comes down to mathematics, but as I use to say; You do not need to be a atom physicist to become a good tennis player...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly, but if this is your way of saying you feel psychology is more important than math I think that's very funny.

[Vincent Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
It is of much more importance to know how to play a hand than to know WHY it should be played in a certain way...


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I couldn't get past this statement. If this is true I need to rethink how I look at the game. If it is not true then you need to rethink how you look at the game. One of us has a fundamental misunderstanding in what's important in poker.

Vince

Yeah I do the same thing to. But the only way I use math is how many higher cards there are out there that can beat me, and when im trying to draw a hand I just guess of how many of that specific card is in the deck and try my chances.

[silvershade]

My personal view is that it is critical to understand how to calculate the odds you are getting on your bets or offering your opponents on their bets, however that is pretty easy to learn. Once you have the basic math down I think that the real edge is to be found in understanding and manipulating your opponent into making ( mathematical ) mistakes.

Poker math is critical but also easy, psychology is probably where the biggest edge is to be found though but its also probably the harder part of the game.

I guess that for a successful player psychology and math would form a synergy.

[12AX7]

Well Vince,
I'd say that what you are essentially saying is "doing the math on the fly is not important as long as your strategy has the math embedded in it".

I'd tend to agree. Often if you look at a reccomended play an author makes, and then go do the math, then it makes sense.

So I suspect it is possible to not have to be a mathematician who can calculate 5 decimals in your head on the fly. Your strategy just need to be underlying mathematically correct.

Clearly math underpins the whole game, if not the whole universe. But whether you have to be running a calculator in your head constantly is a different question.

[ QUOTE ]
I RARELY think about math. The only thing I keep in mind while playing are the odds for specific hands probability to hit(aprox)when not being on a draw - and how much I can get paid if I hit When I draw.


[/ QUOTE ]

I believe odds and probability are math but i rarely think about it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ironically, math is more important at the low levels, as you are more likely to come across players taking short prices on longshots. Playing mathematically sound poker alone can be enough to beat those games.

The more experience players know the math. So, psychology becomes the deciding factor.

[UATrewqaz]

If game is 100% math, however your calculations are based on guessing certain variables. Thus someone who is better at guessing these variables will have better results long term.

AKA if you have QQ vs. 1 other player the mathematical scenarios can be hugely different, the guy in front of you bets, you raise, he reraises all in...

VS an under pair you are a HUGE favorite
VS AK you are about even money
VS KK/AA you are a huge underdog

Well that math is very easy... but which scenario are you actually in? That's where "reading people/hands/feel/whatever" comes in.

[BradleyT]

My previous post is geared towards lower limit play.



What seperates people like Johnny Chan, Doyle Brunson, Phil Helmuth, and Phil Ivey from the rest of us? It's obviously something beyond math.

[Vincent Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
Your strategy just need to be underlying mathematically correct.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd guess this is pretty accurate.

Vince