limit transition to no limit

[dogmeat]

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A high winrate at low limit to mid limit hold'em is generally agreed upon to be 3-4BB/100. The accepted ceiling we will say is 4BB/100. In NL, at the corresponding levels, 8-12PTBB/100 is a good winrate with really good players being able to hammer out 15-18PTBB/100 in the lowest games. We will use the ceiling to be 18PTBB/100 for NL.

I grab one million people at random. I have half of them play NL ring and half play limit ring. I believe I will have a much higher percentage of people beating the NL games for a "good" rate (~8PTBB/100) than you will have people beating limit for a "good" rate (~3BB/100).

Do people disagree with this?

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Here is my argument for the 1 million people trial.

I assume they have never played before, but they get a sheet of paper that lists the winning hand order, and the general idea about hold'em.

Half go to a $1/$2 limit game where the blinds are .50 and $1. Half go to a $100 NL game where the blinds are .50 and $1. Each has just the one buy-in to play with.

After an hour, how many of each group have busted out? I would guess the number is higher in NL.

After 10 hours, how many have busted out? Again, I still see the NL leading the way in broke players.

If we give them each 10 buy-ins ($1000), how many can make anything after 100 hours? If 10% are able to keep from busting out, out of those players, how many are NL, and of the winners, how much did the NL and the limit players average? At this point, WTFknows - I certainly don't.

If after a year of full-time play there were 20,000 that had avoided going broke, what would the mix be. If it was 50/50 then would we say the games were both equally tough? If they were 50/50 but the NL players averaged more per hour, would we say NL was easier?

Anybody?

Now that I've wasted all this time on this topic, the answer is neither - each game appeals to different types of players, and probably it is impossible to state that one is easier or harder for anybody other than ourselves. However, with a small, limited bankroll, I believe new players will go broke at a higher (and faster) rate in NL than limit.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

What are you considering 1 buy-in for a limit game? Also, NL100 is a bigger game than 1/2 limit, but I guess that point is moot anyway as you are clearly just saying games of equal stake.

[scott8]

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The main difference I see is that in Limit it's rarely the right move to fold a hand on the river just to save one bet.

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This is wrong.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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The main difference I see is that in Limit it's rarely the right move to fold a hand on the river just to save one bet.

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This is wrong.

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No, it's right [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. It depends on the opposition. In very aggressive limit games it is rarely right to fold to one bet.

[scott8]

Because he clarified that he was talking about aggressive games? Or specified opposition?

Think before you post.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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Because he clarified that he was talking about aggressive games? Or specified opposition?

Think before you post.

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I put a smiley [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. I just find all this no-limit/limit, yes it is/no it isn't discussions a bit funny.

[umdpoker]

i am assuming that you are playing against average to bad players. i think that nl is easier to start making decent money at. limit takes a lot more faith that you are doing the right thing every time you make a decision, because the losing streaks can be much longer.

in nl, it is easier to control the number of players that are in the pot, and who is in the pot. however, there are also an infinite number of ways to play a hand in nl, many of which can be correct. usually in limit, only 1 or 2 plays are correct. they are both tough to become great at, but i think nl is easier to become a winning player at the low levels. i didn't start playing nl til i had already played limit for a year, so that might have helped me get decent at nl fairly quckly. i definitely believe that you can make more in nl with the same bankroll, which is why i prefer to play nl.