Final 3 on $20 180 person SNG. Both guys all in. Should I fire here?

Toddy · #1 10-26-2005, 01:23 PM

I folded this hand but as I was folding I thought I should have went all in. I had the other short stack covered and if Baldman1 took it down I would have secured 2nd.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t2000 (3 handed) converter

Button (t18455)
SB (t216133)
Hero (t35412)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Button raises to t18355, SB calls t17355, 1 fold.

Flop: (t35910) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t35910) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t35910) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t35910

Toddy · #2 10-26-2005, 01:25 PM

I would have lost this hand by the way, but I still think for the future this should have been an all in for me. Both of the other players range could have been really wide.

Sam T. · #3 10-26-2005, 01:34 PM

Given your hand and stack sizes, I think this is a fold. If you could lose to the SB and still have a decent stack, calling might work, but I'm still not sure.

How often has the button been doing this? In other words, what is his pushing range? If he's shoving any two, then your call is good. If it says, AT+ 99+, then (obvously) you are flipping or dominated. If the SB folded, I like the call. Even if you lose, you're not crippled, and if you win you've got a real edge for first.

Once the SB decides to come along, things change. Some may make this call with 55, but at best you are looking at a couple of overcards from him. While they may share some outs, it is entirely possible that you have to dodge four overcards, which is tough to do.

Try not to be results oriented.

Sam T. · #4 10-26-2005, 01:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Both of the other players range could have been really wide.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's where I disagree. SB is not calling with trash.

sirpupnyc · #5 10-26-2005, 01:50 PM

Let me guess...the big stack lost the hand?

Folding seems safest for securing yourself 2nd. Let the big stack either bust the button or double him up. Button busts, you get 2nd with a shot at 1st. Button doubles, he's about even with you.

You call and big stack wins the hand, you're still 2nd but with half the stack you had. You call and button wins the hand, button triples and you halve, and now you're looking 3rd smack in the face.

You push and big stack calls, they could each take half your stack and send you out in 3rd. You push, big stack folds (this seems unlikely) and button wins, button triples and you halve, and now you're looking at 3rd again.

Button has to make a move, but if he can be sure he's getting called (and the big stack is more than 10x the button's stack, so he's probably calling with anything), it probably makes sense for him not to push with just any old trash.

On the other hand, if button would push with, say, any A or K and the big stack would call with anything AND you're ok with maybe finishing 3rd right now, push.

Guelph · #6 10-26-2005, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's where I disagree. SB is not calling with trash.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is if he agrees with Harrington's 10-1 rule. At that point with those stacks, I probably call with any 2 as the big stack.. because even if I lose the hand, I still have 5X the 2nd place chips, and the added bonus of both short stacks being equal- they both might be afraid of busting before the other, allowing me to steal from both.

GrinningBuddha · #7 10-26-2005, 07:38 PM

Given the short stack's position (9 BB, needing a double up just to get 2nd), I would be moving in pre-flop. If I fold, I will be facing either a 236K stack or a 198K stack and a 38K stack with me at 33K. Neither is all that desirable since I'm playing for first.

Now, if I move in, I'm either finishing 3rd a small percentage of the time, 2nd a medium percentage of the time, or I'll be heads up with an 88K stack vs a 180K stack. The risk of busting in 3rd is more than worth it for me given that I have a great hand 3-handed and have a good chance at getting heads up as only a 2-1 underdog rather than a 5-1 underdog.

The conservative play would be to fold, of course. Given the two outcomes though, I like the all-in.

Simplistic · #8 10-26-2005, 08:33 PM

he's last to act with a mid-pair. i think he's dominated. fold