The Fallacy of Good vs. Evil: Christianity is inherently flawed

FreakDaddy · #1 08-01-2005, 08:44 PM

Inherent in the Judeo-Christian world view is a flawed metaphysical proposition which is scantly explored. As most believers of this world view will tell you, God is the supreme, all knowing, good, wise and only god. While the concept of monotheism was never derived from the Judeo-Christian world, it also doesn’t exist if you apply some simple reasoning to the propositions offered in the bible.

The fundamental tenant in the bible is that there is only one god, which through the use of man and his son (if you apply the New Testament), has passed on teachings on how to live a proper life, and reach the kingdom of heaven (return to the father). All this time, god is engage in a war over mans soul with a fallen angel Lucifer, also known as the devil. Lucifer represents an evil force, which is here to tempt man and sway him to reside in his kingdom (hell), instead of the father’s kingdom (heaven).

The problem with this world view is that it creates a dualism, and NOT a monotheistic world view. You now have two opposing forces, competing for some object (mans soul), thus you either have two gods, OR evil does no truly exist. You cannot apply properties to God, such as goodness, while in the same breath say that god is one, BUT an evil exist. Either this evil is separate from God, and thus creates two gods, or God is not indeed good. These points of course have been addressed to Christian scholars before, but in my searching, never properly addressed, and rarely discussed by laymen.

Here’s the argument for simplicities sake:

God is a ONE and is Good. (These two terms have to be shown to also be one in order for god to be one)

Satan is ONE and is Evil.
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Thus you have 3 conclusions:
1) God is the Supreme being and Satan (evil) does not exist.
2) Satan is the Supreme being and God (Good) does not exist.
3) God and Satan are equal and there are two opposing forces.

Conclusion 1
Obviously if you choose conclusion one, then the inherent problem becomes, what is the role of Satan then according to the Bible, and where did Satan come from? He could not have come from God, because good is wise and good, and basic reason tells us that an evil can not come from a good.

Conclusion 2
If you proceed with this conclusion, then there truly is no good. Satan is the supreme creator, and God’s role is a mere fairly tale for children.

Conclusion 3
This conclusion leads us to the problem of having two gods and not one wise, supreme, and good god. We now have two competing gods with vastly different agendas for the fate of man.

There is of course the famous dark/light analogy so often offered when exploring the concept of good vs. evil. The analogy basically states that while light reigns supreme over darkness, the darkness exists in the light, but is not of the light. It’s a flawed analogy that gives away its problem in the last part of the previous sentence. If the darkness is not of the light, then what is its source? Furthermore, from a purely scientific perspective, only light exists in our universe and darkness is measured in degrees of the lack of light.

This leads me into a more sound and complete metaphysical world view, one which comes from classical philosophy. Instead of having two competing forces, a classic philosophical approach to monotheism states that there is ONE god (which is good), and like a thermometer, degrees of goodness that relate directly to the participation with that God. Thus you have a range of goodness, from the good to bad. Bad is understood perceptually by the individual based on a fragment of time (incomplete information), and thus is bound within a time/space conclusion of bad, but may indeed still be good.

Peter666 · #2 08-01-2005, 10:26 PM

That's why philosophers and true theologians define evil as the absence of good where the good ought to be. Evil is not an entity in and of itself, but a misuse of anything that is good, drawing it away from its appropriate end. Your last paragraph draws out the correct conclusion.

bobman0330 · #3 08-01-2005, 11:21 PM

You crazy Manichean! Burn him at the stake!

Why do you say that it is not good for God to allow evil though? Say that he has 2 options: forcing all the angels and men to obey, or giving them freedom to choose. Going with the latter option allows the possibility of evil, but it also allows a fuller existence of good. If the good that arises is worth "more" than the evil, the good choice would be to allow evil to exist. Thoughts?

FreakDaddy · #4 08-01-2005, 11:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That's why philosophers and true theologians define evil as the absence of good where the good ought to be. Evil is not an entity in and of itself, but a misuse of anything that is good, drawing it away from its appropriate end. Your last paragraph draws out the correct conclusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you that most theologians define evil as the absence of good, (they typically use the dark/light analogy), but I hope most 'good' philosophers wouldn't make such a silly claim.

See if good is a ONE, and if evil is the ABSENCE of good, then it is no longer a part of that one, and thus becomes a two. I would hope that most 'good' philosophers would grasp this concept.

Good post.

FreakDaddy · #5 08-02-2005, 12:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You crazy Manichean! Burn him at the stake!

Why do you say that it is not good for God to allow evil though? Say that he has 2 options: forcing all the angels and men to obey, or giving them freedom to choose. Going with the latter option allows the possibility of evil, but it also allows a fuller existence of good. If the good that arises is worth "more" than the evil, the good choice would be to allow evil to exist. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be happy to discuss the problem of free will with you, but staying specifically with the concept of good vs. evil, having a ONE god that is good, does not directly rule out that a BAD can occur. I'll try to make this less semantical because it's sometimes hard to discuss without properly defining all these terms that we're flinging around.

I personally have no problem saying that a good and evil can exist together. The specific problem I'm pointing out is based on the flawed concept that these are competing forces, which if they are, no longer makes God a ONE. For if God were a one, and evil, the opposite of good existed, it would no longer make God good, for within that one evil would exist. Let's not confuse in free will principles here, just stay with the reason.

Now if you want to say that God is good and is ONE, but an evil exist which is LESS than the good, you are still stuck with the same problem. It's again not to say that a BAD cannot exist, but that they cannot be competing forces.

txag007 · #6 08-02-2005, 12:56 AM

"Thus you have 3 conclusions:
1) God is the Supreme being and Satan (evil) does not exist.
2) Satan is the Supreme being and God (Good) does not exist.
3) God and Satan are equal and there are two opposing forces."

or 4) God is the Supreme Being and Satan (evil) does exist.

The Bible does not hide the fact that Satan exists and Hell is real. However, nowhere in the Bible does it say that Satan is a god. Lucifer was banished to Hell when he wanted to become a god. Therefore, this does not conflict with a monotheistic worldview. There is one true God, and He is Jehovah.

That being said, spiritual warfare is real too. Good and evil are in constant battle with one another. The Bible, however, gives away the ending in the Book of Revelation. God wins. He is in complete control, and thus, good and evil are not equal.

FreakDaddy · #7 08-02-2005, 02:29 AM

Ok, good you agree that evil exist. Where did Satan come from?

#8 08-02-2005, 04:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, good you agree that evil exist. Where did Satan come from?

[/ QUOTE ]

uhhh! Let me guess... From the same place god came from?

PairTheBoard · #9 08-02-2005, 05:12 AM

I think the traditional view was that God is One. God created Angels which are not dieties, not gods, but something else. Some of these angels, led by satan, rebelled and seperated from God. God also created humans. Humans are not dieties, not god, and not Angels, but something else. Eve and Adam were tempted by Satan to seperate from God. Humanity has been seperated from God ever since, thus explaining everything in the world that appears to be less than good - or evil.

imo, where this comes from is the fact that we want to believe that we come from a good source. How then do we explain everything that seems bad or evil. Well, we construct this metaphysical system where everything that's good comes from God and everything evil is our fault. How did it come to be our fault? The bad angel satan mislead us.

This is not such a bad metaphysical construct. It forces us to take responsibility for the world not being better than it could be. And it takes some of the heat off of us and puts it on Satan. It's really pretty monotheistic. There's only one real Diety. Satan is more like one of us than a Diety. You might say Satan is the personification of our rebelion against our better selves.

PairTheBoard

TheRedDragon · #10 08-02-2005, 06:18 AM

Bad reasoning.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with this world view is that it creates a dualism, and NOT a monotheistic world view. You now have two opposing forces, competing for some object (mans soul), thus you either have two gods, OR evil does no truly exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you assume that God and Satan exist on equal footing when the text makes clear that they don't? You do have two competing forces, but that doesn't mean that they're engaging in symmetrical warfare. You'd have a point if Christians believed that the outcome of the battle was undetermined, but we don't.

We believe that God is bound to win in the end. The struggle exists not as a test for Him, but as a test for us.

We believe that both Good and Evil exist, but that in the end Good is bound to triumph over Evil. Might that be a bit optimistic? Surely. But it's certainly not inconsistent.