An interesting spot

brettbrettr · #1 11-02-2005, 08:18 PM

online $15-30 game, I raise in MP with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], laggy CO calls, loose, passive, extremely straightforward BB 3-bets, I cap, Lag calls, BB calls.

3 to the flop for 12.5 sbs: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

BB checks, I bet, Lag folds, BB raises.

Now, folding is out, but what do we think if our options here. If you want to call say why its better than raising, if you would. If you want to raise, please say why.

hobbsmann · #2 11-02-2005, 08:22 PM

Call. You will still have odds to draw to your guthot + tainted overs on the turn and there is a very strong chance your 3-bet will get capped.

W. Deranged · #3 11-02-2005, 08:31 PM

meh.

Nick C · #4 11-02-2005, 08:31 PM

I want to call.

I think we have an equity disadvantage, we have little if any folding equity, and BB may have a good enough hand that we're not getting a free card on the turn (unless he tries to checkraise again).

I don't know. I hardly ever make heads-up free-card raises anymore, and I don't see much in the way of other potential benefits, in this particular spot.

If my 3-bet were a cap instead, I might give the play a little more consideration, but I think I'd still decide against it.

jba · #5 11-02-2005, 08:33 PM

could it be as easy as:

call, because we are crushed??

I mean, he's got QQ+ here like all the time according to your read, he's not going to fold, and we need to catch. So I say wait to find out if we do catch before putting any more bets in than we have to.

(i feel like there's a catch here...)

W. Deranged · #6 11-02-2005, 08:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Call. You will still have odds to draw to your guthot + tainted overs on the turn and there is a very strong chance your 3-bet will get capped.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think from a straightforward player a check-raise sometimes is actually not that aggressive a move; namely, bet-three-betting is more aggressive. Villain may check-raise because he doesn't have enough hand to bet-three-bet. I also think that there's a chance villain would call a flop three-bet and plan on check-raising the turn. Either way, I think that there's a pretty reasonable chance that this flop is not getting capped.

Even still, I find it hard to develop any major opinion about this hand. Everything seems to kind of balance out.

In general, my rule for free card situations like this is that you have to be right 2/3 of the time for them to be a good idea (because you pay 1 BB extra when you get capped and led into, and save .5 BB when you raise and get a free card). It all really comes down to what you think Mr. Straightforward will do.

Yeknom58 · #7 11-02-2005, 08:36 PM

If he's extremely straightforward then he has exactly QQ, KK, or AA and you're behind. I guess the key is getting to showdown for as little money as possible. So here is how I see it..if you raise you probably only get KK to slowdown and AA/QQ probably makes you pay more to see the river so I like a call. Now if you think he might slowdown with AA if you 3 bet then I would raise.

brettbrettr · #8 11-02-2005, 08:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In general, my rule for free card situations like this is that you have to be right 2/3 of the time for them to be a good idea (because you pay 1 BB extra when you get capped and led into, and save .5 BB when you raise and get a free card).

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if you cap and he bets you're calling the turn?

Luv2DriveTT · #9 11-02-2005, 08:47 PM

RAISE. He is straightforward..... he won't get out of line without a monster. Get a free turn card [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

W. Deranged · #10 11-02-2005, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In general, my rule for free card situations like this is that you have to be right 2/3 of the time for them to be a good idea (because you pay 1 BB extra when you get capped and led into, and save .5 BB when you raise and get a free card).

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if you cap and he bets you're calling the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he caps and you call and he bets the turn, there will be 11 BB in the pot. Meaning you have to call just to hit the miracle J (assuming the turn doesn't pair the board... if it does, I think that swings it to a fold).