Open Limping

[Xhad]

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I'm more interested in people's thoughts in general on open limping in EP or MP. If it's folded around to me in late position it is worth a raise if it is worth a play. I guess I'm not really wondering about individual hands as much as the general concept of open limping, if that makes sense.

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Open-limping in MP or later, assuming you have any chance to take down the blinds with a raise, is terrible. And open-limping multiway hands, in a pot that is now unlikely to be multiway, is also terrible.

Chris Ferguson Thinks you shouldn't open-limp in a tight game

Ed Miller states that most open-limpers are weak

[hobbsmann]

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in the party 2/4 game I open limp 22-66, JTs, QJs, QTs, KTs, and some suited aces.

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I meant to say UTG in this post. Open limping in middle/late position is terrible poker except in a very rare cases.

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Chris Ferguson Thinks you shouldn't open-limp

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"Why I never call as the first to enter a pot.

In tough Hold'em games...."

If you have a chance to take the blinds, then raise, otherwise fold.

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in the party 2/4 game I open limp 22-66, JTs, QJs, QTs, KTs, and some suited aces.

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I meant to say UTG in this post. Open limping in middle/late position is terrible poker except in a very rare cases.

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[Harv72b]

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If I have a hand that is playable UTG, such as JTs, QJs, does anyone recommend raising with these hands? I always was under the belief that these hands play much better in a multiway pot

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Unlearn this. These hands play well in multiway pots, yes, but there's no such thing as a hand that plays better in a multiway pot. Whether it's AA or 72o, your chances of winning the pot go up dramatically when it's heads up vs. multiway. And no, I'm not saying to raise speculative hands like this from EP every time (there are times when it's good to do so, but not often)--just clarifying your statement. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Anyway...

It is okay to openlimp in a full ring game, but you shouldn't be doing it often. If the table is loose and/or relatively passive, you can get away with openlimping a lot of hands...things like small pocket pairs, suited broadway, and even suited connectors. The thing is, on limits above 1/2, you are rarely going to find tables that play like this (and when you do, you should be staying there until you have to prop your eyelids open). On most SS tables, the majority of these hands are folds from up front; on some (where the table is playing tight or you just have a killer table image), you can be raising with them. Some of the biggest pots I've ever won came on hands where I openraised something I would normally have folded from EP--55, or 87s, or what have you. Against even semi-observant opponents, the raise serves to mask your hand when you hit the flop hard, and you'll often get a ton of bets out of a strong second best hand (for example, 98s vs. 77 on a 6752J board).

Note that it is sometimes acceptable to openlimp from LP, as well--for example, you're holding a borderline hand like JTs on the button, it's folded to you, and both the SB and BB are insanely loose/passive. In this case, you'll never get the blinds to fold by raising, there's a pretty good chance your hand is not best preflop, you can easily release postflop if your passive opponents start betting, but you're also pretty well assured of being paid off when you do hit the flop.

In an average table session (somewhere around 100-150 hands), I'll probably openlimp once or twice.

my pfr's up around 13% after 50k hands...

i think u should never say never. it's rarely correct to open limp but sometimes the game will call for it. for example, 55 or lower pps at loose passive will call for open limping at EP. esp in games where u're constantly seeing 4-5 limpers behind you.

usually i will auto-raise any mediocre hands- including low pp, when folded to in LP.

[W. Deranged]

People play so tight...

I regularly open-limp KTs, QJs, QTs, JTs, A8s, sometimes A7s, sometimes 66-77 or even smaller pairs at the right table. I would say that a hand like QJs I'm probably open-limping unless I have a specific reason not to, not the other way around.

For me, though, I only ever open-limp in early position when I'm trying to create a big multiway pot.

For reference my vpip is like 18.5 and my pfr is 12.5-13%.

-Will

[hobbsmann]

for refernce I'm a 20/13 filter for 9-10 players.

[McGahee]

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I regularly open-limp KTs, QJs, QTs, JTs, A8s, sometimes A7s, sometimes 66-77 or even smaller pairs at the right table. I would say that a hand like QJs I'm probably open-limping unless I have a specific reason not to, not the other way around.


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Yeah, that's what I'm sayin.

[hobbsmann]

oh yeah and the obligatory nate tha' great link:


you play too tight