Fun With Value Bets... TT

W. Deranged · #1 10-22-2005, 10:36 PM

Cause y'all love this kind of thing...

UTG is mousish: 17/5.5/.6.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Deranged is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Deranged raises, 7 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Deranged bets, UTG raises, Deranged calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Deranged raises, UTG calls.

River: (8.70 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Deranged bets...

hobbsmann · #2 10-22-2005, 10:38 PM

UTG calls with 88 and YHIG.

newhizzle · #3 10-22-2005, 10:39 PM

and villan calls with 77?

an underpair is about all i can put him on unless he raises the river or just hit AJ or something, nice

meep_42 · #4 10-22-2005, 10:44 PM

WtSD%?

What can he call with here, unless he puts you specifically on AK, that he's not beating you with by the river? will he pay off with 55-88?

-d

baronzeus · #5 10-22-2005, 10:49 PM

originally, i thought he had just called the flop and donked the turn. if that was the case, this hand is spewing. since he raised the flop, the rest of this hand is standard.

W. Deranged · #6 10-22-2005, 10:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
originally, i thought he had just called the flop and donked the turn. if that was the case, this hand is spewing. since he raised the flop, the rest of this hand is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very nice observation, Baron.

toss · #7 10-22-2005, 10:54 PM

Lets see. Villain should raise with JJ, more often has 88-66, maaaybe A9s. Does anyone think 3-betting the flop is a better play?

As for the river value bet I think it depends on villain's WTSD rate.

brettbrettr · #8 10-22-2005, 11:29 PM

I take this line a lot. Whether or not I bet the river depends on the river card. The J is ok, IMO, and I'd prob bet it. An ace and I might be more inclined to check behind.

callmedonnie · #9 10-23-2005, 12:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
originally, i thought he had just called the flop and donked the turn. if that was the case, this hand is spewing. since he raised the flop, the rest of this hand is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

The logic here being that a flop c/r could just be an attempt to steal the hand, and that the turn lead is a mandatory follow through of the flop c/r?

W. Deranged · #10 10-23-2005, 01:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
originally, i thought he had just called the flop and donked the turn. if that was the case, this hand is spewing. since he raised the flop, the rest of this hand is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

The logic here being that a flop c/r could just be an attempt to steal the hand, and that the turn lead is a mandatory follow through of the flop c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

The main idea is that the range of hands that he'll check-raise the flop with is really quite small... mostly pocket pairs, hands with 4s, and 9s.

There are many more hands (including JT and all the queens with Ts) that check-call and donk which beat us.

Paired flops are very useful in terms of info, since many fewer hands hit a paired flop than hit a non-paired flop.