QJs help on the turn.

[Kevin West]

Hi guys, this is my first post on the forums, and I played a hand today that I was a little unsure of. I'd appreciate some help.

UTG seemed fairly loose from what I'd seen, but I didn't have any specific reads on him.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>

...

What's my action?

[Niediam]

Raise. An unexpected bet definatly does not mean that you are destroyed. If UTG had a strong holding wouldn't the average player go for a check raise isntead of betting?

[Kevin West]

Well I was thinking either call in case he hit 2-pair, or raise for value since I probably still had the best hand.

I'll continue with my line after another reply or two.

[crownjules]

Definitely raise. If he 3-bets, then you worry about him having something that can beat your top pair and call it down.

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I was thinking either call in case he hit 2-pair, or raise for value since I probably still had the best hand.

I'll continue with my line after another reply or two.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before you continue with your line: don't call here. Just don't do it.

By calling you invite BB to stick around when you hand is very vulnerable, and you have no additional information on what Villain has. If Villain 3-bets your raise, then maybe you start considering 2 pair or a slowplayed set a bit more seriously. But until he 3-bets you, one quirky bet like this is no reason to play scared and no reason to make it easier for BB to see the river.

EDIT: Well, we cross-posted. Glad to see you didn't call.

[Catt]

Raise.

What can we put UTG on that he raises this turn given his prior action? Pocket 44? or a slowplayed pocket 22 or 66? JJ that he neither raised pf nor bet on the flop? Seeing all these is seeing monsters (maybe not the 44 depending on his play, but without a read, consider it seeing a monster).

Raising offers a good shot at knowcking out BB when you face him with 2 cold BBs -- and I'd really want to knock out someone who might be holding an overcard to my QJ.

I've seen bad players bet their flush draws like this; I've seen bad players bet their A4 like this; and I've seen bad players take a shot at bluffing into 2 people in hands like this. You've got TP decnt K and should take the opportunity to make Villain pay to see the river.

[shadow29]

This is a clear raise.

[Oponn]

I think you should go into call-down mode when the villain bet into you on the turn. If the villain hit his wierd two pair or something, then it will cost you less to try and draw out and it's actually good to keep the 3rd player in to pad your odds. If the villain is bluffing, then you might as well encourage him to keep bluffing on the river by just calling him on the turn. You gain the most when you're ahead and lose the least when you're behind this way. If he checks the river, then bet.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
then it will cost you less to try and draw out

[/ QUOTE ]

This is dangerous thinking.

[Oponn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
then it will cost you less to try and draw out

[/ QUOTE ]

This is dangerous thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this so dangerous? The cost of raising when behind + the benefit of inducing a bluff when ahead is perfectly reasonable logic in deciding to call rather than raise. If the villain is semi-bluffing a flush-draw, you want him to fire again on the river when he misses (which is 4/5 of the time).

In addition, if you raise the turn, then you'd better be able to fold to a 3-bet.

In situations where you're either way ahead or way behind I don't think it's dangerous to consider slowing down because it limits your losses when behind and maximizes your win when ahead. Inducing bluffs is something that a lot of people overlook.