AK in big pot against some kooks - Live 8/16

brick · #1 10-18-2005, 03:50 PM

7 handed. Live 8/16.

definition

UTG calls, bad kook raises in MP (he has been singing and dancing in his chair to his walkman), I 3-bet with As Ks. (I have a tight image because I have been card dead and can't even find a spot to play marginal hands)

LP calls 3 cold. (he's about 20yo and reasonable playing but has been making bad cold calls)

Button kook caps. (she plays ok post flop but wacko pre-flop, she could have AA or 47s)

BB calls. All call. 6 to the flop for 24sb

Flop: Td 6d 2c

All check to me and I bet. Kid calls. Button raises.

It's folded to me. what should my plan be for the rest of the hand?

@bsolute_luck · #2 10-18-2005, 04:02 PM

you'll have to first explain your flop bet to me given loose description of players and the fact that donk bet is doubtful for value and most certainly won't win you the hand right there.

brick · #3 10-18-2005, 04:08 PM

It's to protect my equity. Because the pot is huge and I'm not giving people with QJ and 87 and ... a free ride.

Nick Royale · #4 10-18-2005, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's to protect my equity. Because the pot is huge and I'm not giving people with QJ and 87 and ... a free ride.

[/ QUOTE ]
Weird reasoning. Just check/call the flop.

brick · #5 10-18-2005, 05:09 PM

Maybe a better way to say it is that I could very well still have the best hand. Even against 5 players. My bet could cause others to incorrectly fold forfeiting their equity. Sure they are kooks, but they may fold if they have “nothing”.

mdob · #6 10-18-2005, 05:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's to protect my equity. Because the pot is huge and I'm not giving people with QJ and 87 and ... a free ride.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I don't think this makes a lot of sense. If you're behind, betting will cost you money. You don't have enough outs for a value bet. I guess it depends on how likely you are to be ahead, which I don't think is very likely at all (<10%?).

The only reason to be afraid of giving QJ a free card is if you think you'll be ahead if QJ folds and a Q/J comes. Do you think that's the case often enough?

[ QUOTE ]
7 handed
6 to the flop for 24sb

[/ QUOTE ]

Good god I need to play more live.

kerrizor · #7 10-18-2005, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason to be afraid of giving QJ a free card is if you think you'll be ahead if QJ folds and a Q/J comes. Do you think that's the case often enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

<i>Someone</i> has K10-J10, 10-9. They're not going anywhere for a single bet, getting at least 25:1. Don't fall in love with your AKs; check-call, check-fold the river unless you improve.

Fianchetto · #8 10-18-2005, 06:30 PM

Hey brick,

I also am not too excited about your flop bet here. I mean, yes the pot is huge, and yes you want people to fold, but I regard this flop as a complete miss. I think it's unrealistic to think you have the best hand right now, and with 6 people in for 4 bets this pot is going to showdown, so you'll need to improve.

If you can peel one off cheaply I think that's fine, but you are leading into a preflop capper, and if they don't have you beat then this flop has certainly hit one of your opponents. A lot times you are getting raised here and you will be drawing pretty thin. Against a set you are really crushed, and a lot of players like to play AT/KT type hands that may have you reverse dominated, a diamond may kill you. So I'd say you have somewhere between 0-4 clean outs, not a scenario where I wish to commit a lot of chips.

As it played out, I think you should call the flop raise, and hope to hit a black A or K, otherwise planning to check/fold the turn. Wait, I guess the pot will be so big on the turn that you may have to call again trying to pair up, or if you pick up a gutshot.

I think a better line may be to check/call the flop, and maybe check/call a safe turn, but I'm really looking for reasons to exit this hand and wait for a better flop to commit a bunch of chips. If you are getting 6 way capped action, you will definitely have opportunities.

brick · #9 10-18-2005, 07:02 PM

ok, guys thanks. need to stop putting so much money in with UI AK.

lil feller · #10 10-18-2005, 09:35 PM

I'm going against the grain here, but whatever.

If the button is capable of capping with as wide of a range as you indicated, you want to bet the flop and you want to get raised. Yeah the flop is a whiff, but this pot is huge. yeah 2 diamonds sucks a little, and the T sucks a lot, but this pot is huge. If the button is capable of capping w/out a pair, or with a smallish pair, you want to get raised here.

These are some things to consider before you proceed. Is the button so "kooky" that you feel the need to show your hand down UI? Is LP3 aware enough to know what he's getting himself into by calling your flop bet, being trapped between the two of you? What is LP3's cold-calling range here (medium pair seems most likely, would he do this without a pair. if yes, how many of those hands contain a T?). If the button is so kooky that you feel the need so go to showdown UI, 3bet the flop and try to define LP3's hand. If he calls its a T/diamond draw at the very least, and might be a set. If he mucks get to SD as cheaply as possible unless you improve.

If you don't think you need to showdown vs the button just call the flop bet and re-evaluate on the turn. If its a no A/K diamond, c/f. If its the A or K of diamonds, lead. If its black, check/call.

wow that was long...sorry.

lf