Double Donk 10 10

flopmonster · #1 10-29-2005, 04:00 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, [color=#666666]2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](6 players)
[color=#CC3333]UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises, CO folds, Button folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)
[color=#CC3333]UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (15.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)
[color=#CC3333]UTG+1 bets, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 19.75 BB

I think I definitely should have waited for turn to raise. Villain is loose somewhat aggressive. Raise all these donk bets or just call river??? Comments much appreciated

I haven't posted a hand in a while and i dont no why that [colorxoxox] bs comes up.. can sum1 help?

Nick C · #2 10-29-2005, 05:08 AM

I would just call the river, which might be giving UTG+1 more credit than he deserves. It seems like you should be ahead, unless Villain is taking an unusual line with a set or something. Then again, I suppose some weird two-pair hand or even a straight is also possible. Edit: So is an overpair. Who knows what Villain has, really.

Waiting until the turn is an option, but if UTG+1 had 3-bet the flop, that would have had potential advantages for you (if that 3-bet chased some of the people in between away).

Regarding the converter: You need to change the Format (in the upper-left corner) from FTR to 2+2 Forums.

Piiop · #3 10-29-2005, 05:20 AM

Just call the river, other than that it's fine.

The flop raise is good because you can still force 2 players to pay 2 bets and they'll fold a lot which will give you the button, which is very good. If you wait until the turn, you might convince yourself not to raise a scare card even though you should. Like NC, UTG+1 might 3bet and fold out some middle players. Oh, and value.

Nick C · #4 10-29-2005, 05:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The flop raise is good because you can still force 2 players to pay 2 bets and they'll fold a lot which will give you the button, which is very good.

[/ QUOTE ]

For some reason I didn't notice that you weren't the last to act on the flop.

I agree with Piiop. Raising the flop is better than waiting.

flopmonster · #5 10-29-2005, 07:12 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO folds, Button folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (15.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 19.75 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Js 8s (one pair, eights).
Hero has Th Tc (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 19.75 BB.

crazygoose · #6 10-29-2005, 08:17 PM

That would be a huge mistake to wait for the turn to raise. Your hand is way too vulnerable to overs to let ppl stick around in hopes of hitting another undercard on the turn. I htink you played it perfectly.

#7 10-29-2005, 08:30 PM

This a typical loose game? I'm assuming it is because you have 3 callers in front of you. In that case I think you have to raise preflop because of the equity you get hoping to win a huge pot when u flop a set. Flop comes 238 (6 handed) w/ a bet and two calls in front you... I call here because a raise isn't going to garbage except build a bigger pot (15 sb action on you if u raise you make it 17 + 3 people ahead of you who call will be 20 / 2 bets = 10:1 odds any draw continues) when about every card on the turn scares you (J,Q,K,A,8,2,3) it is better to wait till the turn where you can exploit a bigger edge if the turn bricks. Turn came a 5... can't ask for a much better card then this, Now is when you raise and you confront the field (except two players ahead of you and the bettor) with a double bet. They are getting shitty odds then (since u only called flop), plus it looks like you slowplayed a monster.

With your line of raising the flop (i don't like) actually got a couple people to fold. The turn bricks but your bet into again. It'd be nice to know your player here. Some players only bet into the raiser when they improve, others will bet when they pick up a flush draw (extra outs) and some will put you on a draw or something weak and bet at you to prevent a free card etc... If you know the answer to this act accordingly if not I'd prob raise again, if your reraised here call for a set or pairing of the board. Nobody reraised and the river comes a 7, perfect. You have one player left and he bets into you again... once again think about your player's previous actions. Have you seen him bet a hand get raised and then improve later? If you have, how did he play it? If he's the guy who leads again and then reraises then definitely call. If he is the guy who thinks check raise you have to raise IMO. Don't let the 4 card straight scare you since there is only one player. I mean what could he have? 86 and 87 is the only thinig i can think of that just screwed you. If you don't know nething about him assume I'd prob assume he's a check raiser since most players think that way. He either outfoxed you by getting three bets or he is trying to bluff you out of the pot because he missed a draw? Or maybe he put you on overs and is betting his pair for value, I don't know what this bet means but you have an overpair and most players check raise when they improve so i say raise. I hope this helps. anyone else like the line above i gave? If not feel free to chime in and tell me what you think is better about raising flop, calling river etc..

P.S. If you take my line of calling the flop and a scare card comes on turn... you should probably fold since the pot is multi-handed still and are likely drawing to 2 outs and won't be getting the 20:1 necessary to call. You may think think is a weak approach but I believe it protects your hand the best when there are many bet/calls in front of you. If you were immediately to the left of the raiser, one can make a good case for raising since 15:2 is giving worse odds then 10:1, however, 7.5:1 still may be too high to give since overs will prob still call. However, you may want to prety for a good turn card and then raise there to give an even worse price. I'm undecided on this.

siccjay · #8 10-30-2005, 03:41 AM

Sorry bro. I think this post is TL;BA (Too Long; Bad Advice)

MCS · #9 10-30-2005, 03:53 AM

I think it's perfect, except I question the river raise. The flop and turn raises are standard. There's no reason to wait for the turn because you can still protect your hand somewhat on the flop.

On the river, if you just call, you don't risk a 3-bet from some crazy hand like 87 or a goofily played 55 or something.

UTG+1 has been raised twice and just keeps betting. You may well be behind.