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  #1  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:21 PM
hotsauce615 hotsauce615 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 200
Default Poker stars datamining and collusion Q\'s

I've been playing a lot of 10+1's lately and it seems that collusion is happening pretty often. I constantly find myself 2nd stacked with 3 guys left and the chip leader just starts dumping chips to the other guy and not playing hands against each other, only to dump back n forth. 2v1 that late in a game just hurts, and it has screwed me out of money on several occasions. Does pokerstars do anything to stop collusion? I remember reading several threads saying that they don't care about anything, but I can't find the specific ones. Also I'm assuming programs like pokeredge and whatnot are fine with them too?
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  #2  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:24 PM
jaydoggie jaydoggie is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: davenport, ia
Posts: 237
Default Re: Poker stars datamining and collusion Q\'s

yes. just report the 2 names that you suspect of collusion and they take every matter very seriously. here is an example of a report i got back from them.

First thank you for taking time to report your concerns. We take the
integrity of our games seriously and appreciate vigilant players who help
us monitor the games. I have completed my review of the accounts 'gph08'
and 'Druidsorcr'.

The first thing we check is the relationship, if any, between the two
players. In this case, I do not think they know each other. They are from
different states, and have none of the common indicators lit. These
include things like shared computers, transfers to and from each other, and
so on. Of course, this doesn't mean that they are not friends, but it's
certainly a good sign.

Here at PokerStars we are able to replay hands with all cards face up. To
review this case I retrieved all hands played by these players to date.
There was none; Today is the first time that they have ever played
together.

When checking for collusion we simply replay the tournament with the cards
face up. We look for several things which include, but are not limited to:

1. Squeeze play - the players reraise each other in an effort to drive a
third from the pot.

2. Pot building - the players put in small bets that entice others to
call when one of them makes a big hand, in the hope of building a larger
pot, and perhaps commit a player.

3. Stack balancing - the player with the larger stack purposely loses to
the smaller stack to ensure both players remain in the game.

4. Softplay - this is where one player who holds a really strong hand
decides not to bet his hand against another. It is very similar to (3)
stack balancing, and many stack balances are also softplays. Also note
that Softplay is the mildest form of cheating because lots of players just
do not realise that such play is prohibited.

(1) and (2) above usually requires the sharing of hole card information
externally to the game, however for (3) and (4), if two players just happen
to have a policy of not clashing against one another, then they do not
necessarily need to have any knowledge of one another's cards.

I have reviewed the tournament in question, looking for any unusually
played hands by these two players apart from the hand that you reported -
which I cannot describe as anything other than "bad play". I am happy to
say I did not see any strange play by either player at any time; at all
times they appeared to play their hands in their own individual best
interests. I saw no strong hands being folded, no unusual raises designed
to pass chips to each other, and generally no play that was not easily
explained as standard poker. I did see several hands where the players
clashed with disadvantageous results if they were working as a team - one
such hand is attached below where 'gph08' severely cripples 'Druidsorcr' in
a hand which he could easily have folded if they were working together.

Overall, there appears to be no indication that these players are colluding
in any way. Please however do not ever hesitate to report any concerns you
might have about unusual play to us for review. As you can see, we treat
all such complaints seriously, and will do a full investigation into any
such email.

Best Regards,

Ellis
PokerStars Support Team
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  #3  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:25 PM
smartalecc5 smartalecc5 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 136
Default Re: Poker stars datamining and collusion Q\'s

Suck it up. You are probably not being colluded against. It is possible that player A always raises with good hands and everytime player B has a bad hand and folds. Is that collusion?


Also, for two people to both make the final 3 will not happen everytime, and the times it does, it should not be devistating.
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  #4  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:28 PM
hotsauce615 hotsauce615 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 200
Default Re: Poker stars datamining and collusion Q\'s

Just curious, I got the report and I'm going to send it out for the heck of it. I'll let you guys know what happens
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  #5  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:29 PM
smartalecc5 smartalecc5 is offline
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Location: Chicago
Posts: 136
Default Re: Poker stars datamining and collusion Q\'s

Yup, smartalecc5 is right [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:32 PM
PrayingMantis PrayingMantis is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 11,600 km from Vegas
Posts: 489
Default Re: Poker stars datamining and collusion Q\'s

It is really much much more probable that you're playing against bad players than against colluders, especially in such a buy-in.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:54 PM
KingMedicine KingMedicine is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Francsico
Posts: 206
Default Re: Poker stars datamining and collusion Q\'s

i've been accused of colluding a lot lately in SNGs and i've never once in my life even slightly colluded with anyone.

not talking about the OP here, but i think the word "colluded" has gone mainstream and every fish with any slight knowledge of poker lingo is throwing it around freely. i'm willing to bet the "these players colluded against me" emails are pouring into the sites right now.

getting a finger pointed at me yelling "collusion" bothers me only in that the others at the table might look at certain plays i make (like raising donk-UTGs opening flop bet in limit even tho i only have middle pair and a backdoor flush draw so that i can "clear out the rest of the table" and get head's up with UTG donk) and also assume im colluding causing them to leave or email support or whatever.

point being, collusion surely does happen. however, its very very rare that i see a "is this collusion?" post on 2+2 that i can say there is no basis in poker for the play (meaning that it is either collusion or a drunkard making the play).

this collusion finger pointing is the new wave of donks making themselves feel better because they dont understand certain plays. (like i said, this isnt directed at OP at all, just me letting out a little frustration.)
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2005, 03:06 PM
antifish225 antifish225 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 124
Default Re: Poker stars datamining and collusion Q\'s

Poker Stars is Awesome at this type of thing - have had similar experiences
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