Tournament Tactics Question

David Sklansky · #1 06-04-2005, 03:32 AM

10K Buy In WPT Mirage Tourney. 320 Players. 3rd Table (27th) pays 18K to everybody. First prize one Mil. Everyone starts off with 20K in chips. 31 players left. You doubled someone up a few hands earlier leaving you with only 20K tournament chips. Everyone else in the tournament has at least 50K. Average stack is 200K.

Blinds are 2000-4000. Ante 500. Eight players. All fold to you on the button. Two typical players in the blinds both have about 150K. You pick up 86suited. What's your play?

Niediam · #2 06-04-2005, 04:17 AM

Fold. Try to find a better hand this rotation to atttempt to double up with.

csuf_gambler · #3 06-04-2005, 04:25 AM

push.

this is a no brainer. easiest push ever.

Apathy · #4 06-04-2005, 04:26 AM

With the pot at 11,000 already this looks like a great spot to gamble, especially if the players in the blinds will fold even half of their hands it becomes a pretty clear push.

Saying that the players are 'typical' makes it difficult to put them on a calling range, they wouldnt have to fold many hands to make this a push though.

spiritmagic · #5 06-04-2005, 04:29 AM

Move all in. If both blinds are typical players they will tighten up waiting for the money and if you are called your hand isn't not that big of a dog against there holdings.

Zaxenexaz · #6 06-04-2005, 04:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Move all in. If both blinds are typical players they will tighten up waiting for the money and if you are called your hand isn't not that big of a dog against there holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they tighten up? If the SB folds, the BB is paying 16k to gamble for our 20K stack and the 11K in blinds, seems like an easy call with any 2 cards for him.

scdavis0 · #7 06-04-2005, 04:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why would they tighten up? If the SB folds, the BB is paying 16k to gamble for our 20K stack and the 11K in blinds, seems like an easy call with any 2 cards for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't consider less than 2 to 1 an "any two" call.

prana · #8 06-04-2005, 04:44 AM

Interesting situation, opportunity for two stacks with ample $$$$$ to call ur all in, and knowing u are pushing likely with any two, i am willing to bet u get called ALOT but it's likely
an ICM test for some math whiz's especially if they are even the least bit loose because any high cards u're getting called. I know I am thinking along the right lines but again are they maniacs or just guys who built their stacks by nut peddlin????????? Guess I don't understand typical players as described, cuz I'd likely call as a blind with a large range here, not getting overly hurt by losing and gaining a few rounds of blinds by winning, plus expecting a lesser than average hand by the short stack.

Zaxenexaz · #9 06-04-2005, 04:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I don't consider less than 2 to 1 an "any two" call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, well, if we flipped up AsKd, he'd be +EV of 262 chips to call with 2c3h so whatever calculations tournament players use to balance out the time the button has a pair I don't know, the point was to say I'd think he'd call with most of his holdings..
I could easily be wrong on this though
Zaxen

Morningside · #10 06-04-2005, 04:46 AM

Move in automatically. Yes, the BB is getting 2 to 1 but they are looking at a very big jump up from 0 to $18K if they just fold and try to survive.

This could easily be our last chance to open-raise with more than 3x the BB. It's not a great spot, but it's better than the other spots we are likely to find in this tournament.