How James Woods Helped Me Collect My Thoughts on Morality.

[David Sklansky]

Before he became my buddy, I read an interview of him where he was aked how he prepared himself for a villian's role. His reply was that he always tried to inject some righteousness into that villian no matter how dastardly he appeared. Because he realized that except possibly for the truly insane, everybody basically thinks they are a generally good person. Even career criminals, mobsters and scoundrels justify to themselves that there is a good reason for what they do. Almost no one simply says to themselves "I am bad period. So what? They make excuses in their mind which amount to a desire to conform to some sort of "moral" code, twisted as it may be. And he felt it was important to portray that aspect of their psyche.

Upon reading that I realized James was right. At least as far as the several dozen bad people I knew. And clearly he is right about suicide bombers. Else why would they give up their lives? Surely not just for the 72 virgins. They must have felt that what they were doing was morally right. And that includes the 911 hijackers. (I often think we would have a better chance in the mid east if we would acknowledge this fact rather than simply call them evil criminals. But that is for another thread.) Same goes for most, if not all, Nazis. They almost certainly convinced themselves they were not evil. Likewise slaveowners.

I think everyone agrees that a truly crazy person is not evil any more than an animal is. As for those not crazy, how can you call them evil (rather than stupid or deluded) if they take pains to explain to thmselves or others why what they are doing is "right". Now there may be a few sociopathic types that don't fit into this category but they are either non existent or rare enough to ignore. The fact is that most of those we call evil, upon closer examination really aren't. Probably including Hitler. Something that James Woods helped me see.

[chomsky53]

wow. you are really really dumb.

[Jman28]

I agree entirely that almost all people think they are good people. People also all think they have a good personality, but that's off topic.

[ QUOTE ]
As for those not crazy, how can you call them evil (rather than stupid or deluded) if they take pains to explain to thmselves or others why what they are doing is "right".

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's where I disagree a little. Maybe 'evil' is a strong word, but there are definitely people who are more good than others. As for the people who convince themselves what they are doing is right, I think that is an issue similar to will power. (Which I have read about it your book.)

We all know that we shouldn't take $50 from a kid even if we will never get caught. Those who can somehow convince themselves it is okay are resisting the will to do right. This is similar to someone convincing themselves it's okay to eat ice cream when dieting.

A better example than is one that is less clearly right/wrong:

A friend needs help moving.

A good friend will resist the urge to stay at home watching TV in order to help his friend.

A bad friend will convince himself that he isn't wrong to not help, and will stay home and watch 'That 70s House' on mtv.

The difference is that one resisted the urge to do 'evil' and I think that we can make a value judgement here and call him a better person.

[BluffTHIS!]

If those who:

a) intentionally inflict harm on others for self-gratification

b) kill, maim or injure others for personal benefit not absolutely necessary for survival

c) place no value on the lives of others

are not evil, then you have no concept of morality and are amoral, though not because the above conditions are true of yourself personally. And it is reprehensible to characterize someone as Hitler, albeit having sociopathic tendencies, as not evil, since to do so mitigates the seriousness of their harmful actions and denigrates the suffering of their victims.

[David Sklansky]

Poster: BluffTHIS!
Subject: Re: How James Woods Helped Me Collect My Thoughts on Morality.

"If those who:

a) intentionally inflict harm on others for self-gratification

b) kill, maim or injure others for personal benefit not absolutely necessary for survival

c) place no value on the lives of others

are not evil, then you have no concept of morality "

I agree with that. I, and James woods, claim that in real life, such a person (not including the retarded and deranged) is almost nonexistent.

Also by the way, I define evil as a lot worse than simply immoral.

[brick]

You see david, you've almost made it around the circle.
You've pointed out that everyone thinks they are good, but are actually not.
Including you. You are bad. So am I.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with that. I, and James woods, claim that in real life, such a person is almost nonexistent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Our american prisons are full of such murderers, rapists, and child-molesters. Many of them belonged to gangs or organized crime. My comments about not characterizing Hitler as evil applies to them as well.

[NotReady]

Tell Mr. Woods I think he's a great actor. Probably the best all time slimeball on screen (that's a compliment). The only better portrayal of pure evil I can think of is Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs, a role Woods could have done well, I think.

Your first two paragraphs are good. One thing all humans do well is rationalize. Even when we admit we did something wrong, we find an excuse. It started with Adam and Eve when they tried to blame God for their sin. The rest is history.

The third paragraph is dead wrong for reasons I've given many times.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
PTB --
<font color="white"> ,, </font>
The last person to get into heaven will be the last person who insists that someone must go to hell

[/ QUOTE ]

Someday you will be able to google that quote.

PairTheBoard

[David Sklansky]

"Our american prisons are full of such murderers, rapists, and child-molesters. Many of them belonged to gangs or organized crime. My comments about not characterizing Hitler as evil applies to them as well."

I already agreed that some people can be characterized as evil and that you have a good definition of it. We just disagree about how rare those people are. Do you agree with me that suicide bombers do not fit into that category? I can tell you for sure that most Mafioso don't. And I'm almost sure that many of the other ones you named don't either. In some cases because they are flat out crazy. Do you agree that exempts them from the evil label? As for Hitler I only said he MIGHT not be evil. I would have to know his real motives to be sure.

Meanwhile given your definition of an evil person I assume you disagree with Not Ready that you need God to have absolute moral standards.