Where does the money come from?

[Recliner]

This has been bothering me for quite a while. I don't understand where the money comes from in poker. I started my poker career with $40 and told myself if I lost it I would just stop and never play again. In my first day of playing I lost $12 at .05/.10 limit. The next day I went "WTF?!" went out and bought Winning Low Limit Hold'em (I know, a 2+2 favorite). After reading that book I improved my game, continued to study, bought more books and turned into a winner. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I imagine money comes from people that have a high disposable income and feel like playing poker? I'd also think people with gambling problems donate quite a bit of money, and maybe some people enjoy losing money???

My problem is that when I think where the money comes from I am completely unable to take the point of view of a loser. When I try put myself in their place to understand what's going on in their head my brain completely rejects the idea. I suppose that's not a horrible thing. I imagine I’ve built up a belief in my mind that ‘playing poker’ == ‘winning money’. Thinking about it more I suppose the opposite could hold true and those people like playing poker so nothing seems out of place in their mind? Or people get addicted to winning to the point where it clouds their logical ability to see that they are a net loser, or they just don’t care?

I’m bothered that I don’t understand where the money comes from especially because I feel that I’m winning lots of it. I was hoping that someone would hopefully be able to tell me in more definite terms of who the losers are, why they play and why they continue to lose.

[SNOWBALL138]

Most players are overall losers. That doesn't mean that they can't beat some games. For example, if you took your winnings and tried to move up a limit, you might end up being a contributor to that game.
If Sklansky or Ray Zee played in the big game, they might not end up beating the game.

[smurfitup]

it's sort of sad, but i think a lot of winning poker players consider the source of the money to be irrelevant. of course, this is necessary in a way since many of these players are earning their income from those donations, but the question is nonetheless valid. i'm a college student, but i play to make money for my expenses and because i'm a competitive person. still, when playing live, i often find myself dreading being in a pot w/ a person who seems like a compulsive gambler. maybe it's bad to categorize someone that quickly, but there are certain people at my casino that are there every day and lose consistently. these are the compulsive gamblers that feed a lot of the good games, and these are the types that make me hate playing poker live. playing online is a mixed blessing because the anonymity it provides allows you to forget that you're actually playing a real person. but in the end, when you realize the hundreds of thousands of dollars that are won and lost everyday, you can't help but think that some of the people losing the money can't really afford to lose it and some of them can't really control it.

[goofball]

Me.

[MagnoliasFM]

millions of people play blackjack every year. I'm pretty sure most of them are losing players. yet the casinos make millions off them. people can afford to lose, so if you are a pro there is money to be earned.

[smurfitup]

i don't see how the fact that casinos make millions off of losing blackjack players leads you to conclude that people can afford to lose. sure, some people can afford to lose, but a lot of the people playing can't.. i'm sure you can see this.. i don't understand how your argument counters anything posed in this thread...

[mosdef]

the two major sources (i think) are:

1. people who understand that their ev is negative but are willing to trade in money in the long term for short term bursts of excitement when they win. these people are known as "gamblers" and are not entirely new to society.

2. the "one-month, it's rigged, i quit" players who think they are winning players because they see poker on tv and think "hey, i can do that!". these people usually sign up, put in $100 and lose it, then never play again. i think that there are TONS of these people.

[meow_meow]

[ QUOTE ]
the two major sources (i think) are:

1. people who understand that their ev is negative but are willing to trade in money in the long term for short term bursts of excitement when they win. these people are known as "gamblers" and are not entirely new to society.

2. the "one-month, it's rigged, i quit" players who think they are winning players because they see poker on tv and think "hey, i can do that!". these people usually sign up, put in $100 and lose it, then never play again. i think that there are TONS of these people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, except that I think the second category is much larger than the first, and that the average amount donated is probably much closer to $1000 than $100, and that these players probably come back once or twice after their initial run of "bad luck" for another go.

[revots33]

Another category is the person who is actually a long-term loser but manages to convince himself he's a winner. They remember their winning sessions but manage to forget the losing ones.

[Jailhouse]

I am very close with people who donate regualarly. I am fascinated with the psychology of the whole thing and have put a lot of thought into why these people keep coming back for more.

I think a major part of it is seeing someone else succeed, and thinking that they can replicate the success because it looks and feels so easy when a person is winning. That intoxication of winning sticks with a person for a long time even after enduring loss after loss, which losers ALWAYS atribute to bad luck. It is delusion that pays winning players rent. Without delusion the poker industry (and probably the gambling industry as a whole) would most likely collapse.

Losing players can't accept that in order to win at poker, you need to know something that your opponents don't know. One of the losing players I know hasn't read a single book or studied the game at all but watches me play high limit games and he actually thinks he could come in there and beat it. It amazes me that he can't recognize that he is getting crushed at $5 SNGs and believes that he can beat a 100-200 game. It's mind-boggling but the mind of a true gambler works differently that of a winning player. He has convinced himself that he is a winning player because of a few "scores" when in reality he has lost thousands upon thousands chasing the dream.

Losing players are clueless as to how much work must go into the game before you can extract anything out of it. Be thankful for this delusion that pays winning player's rent.
-J-house