Can a Former Addict become a good Poker Player?

[Python49]

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"You can become a good player." They don't know what they are talking about.


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F*ck that.

Learning to be able to beat a $100 NL game is NOT hard if you study and are open to advice... and willing to put the changes into place. I'm not saying this guy can or cannot do it, frankly it sounds as though he lacks self control (knowing when to fold hands, learning to be patient, not over value'ing hands).. which could be the deciding factor on if he could be a winning player. If he cannot get self control then yeah, he won't be able to beat the game. If he did however learn to control his play and play the game the winning way... crushing a $100 NL game isn't the most challenging thing in the world. I am not however condoning him to continue playing this game, I think someone with a gambling problem should obviously stop immediately, i am just saying though that he could learn to be a winning player... anyone can, it's just up to him if he's willing to practice what he learns and is told.

[FredJones888]

you have no idea what you are saying.

this guy does not have a typical psychological attitude towards gambling, he is a compulsive. That means that he compulsively does things even though he already knows better. It doesn't matter how much he knows, and he already knows a lot. He knows how to play correctly but he can't do it.

Al, out of all people that post here, especially this section of 2 + 2 I highly regard your opinion. I do think though, that your argument here is subjective. I say that for these reasons only.

Not because I believe I can beat the game at low levels, not because I think I can make spare change to pay me car payment, and most certainly not because I could ever even think at this point of my life I have the mind frame to play this game at a level YOU can.

But for ONCE in my life I am making the proper moves. I 'AM' dropping limits to where I feel I can beat the field. I am not playing $1K NL. I AM asking for advice and TRULY taking it to heart (including yours). I am making a concious effort to change the behavioral patterns that led me to the incredible mis fortune I have seen in my life.

I STILL will tell people to this day, even if I lsot $100K the night before (and it has happened) that poker is NOT a game of LUCK, it is a game of skill. Is luck involved?

ABSOLUTELY!!!

But skill trumps luck in the long run.


'You may succeed for a brief time, but the psychological characteristics that made you into an addict are still operating, and they will almost certainly continue to operate.'

This, is the main issue and the focus of this particular thread Al. I am Bi-Polar, I am an alchoholic, and I have abused damn near every drug known to man. They have ALL completely ruined my life in some way, shape, or form. Some worse than others.

I have control over my alchoholism, my drug addictions, and I have even quit smoking !!!! To put it into perspective to do all of those things over the course of 18 months is what ABSOLUTELY ANY DRUG COUNSELOR 'WILL' tell you is impossible and strongly .... strongly.... dis-advocated.

They say, one step at a time.. blah blah blah ... Not who I am [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Now this does NOT mean I will succeed, and you may very well be right Al. But it isn't 'quite' as cut and dry as you put it.

Some people will say...

"Well, once an alchoholic always an alchoholic"

True?

YES!

I'm here trying to find out if it is true or not that once you have certain personalities that lead you to become a gambling addict.... Can you make it a game of skill - Or are you eternally doomed to repeat the same mistakes an alchoholic would make no matter how much effort you put into it.


Do the sensible thing. Accept reality and the opinion of experts: Leave poker and all other forms of gambling alone.

ALL ther forms of gambling except poker have been left alone, if you knew the stories of my other forms of gambling, and the comps alone I have recieved in Vegas you would feel Pity for me. That is not what I am here for though.

[Jeffage]

Dude, you have a family, a wife and kids that need you. Smarten up and leave it alone...you've illustrated time and time again you can't handle it. Focus your energies on them and don't visit an online site or cardroom for a year. If after that time, you must play low limits for fun if you insist on returning. Don't venture for serious money, b/c you've shown time and again you will lose (and big) and it will impact your life badly. Just remember what is really important to you and protect them and yourself by any means necessary.

As a player, people like you make me money. But you are asking for help away from the felt, so I am offering you my best advice...whether to take it is up to you.

Jeff

[Al Schoonmaker]

I greatly admire all that you have accomplished. VERY few people could kick so many addictions.

But you said:

"They say, one step at a time.. blah blah blah ... Not who I am Now this does NOT mean I will succeed, and you may very well be right Al. But it isn't 'quite' as cut and dry as you put it.

"Some people will say...

"Well, once an alchoholic always an alchoholic"

"True?

"YES!

"I'm here trying to find out if it is true or not that once you have certain personalities that lead you to become a gambling addict.... Can you make it a game of skill - Or are you eternally doomed to repeat the same mistakes an alchoholic would make no matter how much effort you put into it."

End of quoted material.

The critical issue, as in all poker decisions, is EV. We compute EV by multiplying the probabilities of all outcomes times the rewards and risks.

You recognize that the probability of success is very low.

You recognize that the risks are enormous. You can start another cycle of addiction. Previous cycles nearly destroyed you.

If you succeed, you win a few dollars, and the odds are very high that you won't succeed.

Given these facts, what is the EV of deciding to play poker?

It is MASSIVELY negative.

You should know from your work with counselors that a major symptom of all addictions is denial: "Don't worry about me. I can handle it (alcohol, cocaine, heroin, gambling, etc.).

You're in denial now. Read your own posts. Review what has happened to you. Then ask, "Is it worth risking my entire life on the low probability that I can succeed where so many other gambling addicts have failed?"

Regards,

Al

Regards,

Al

[SNOWBALL138]

Hey buddy,

If you feel that Dr. Al is wrong, then I recommend that you make an appointment with a therapist. Get a second opinion.

Best wishes,
Snowball

[Bodhi]

Dude, get a job. The fact that you're still taking shots at limits you can't afford is pitiful.

[Bodhi]

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I do think though, that your argument here is subjective.

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You mean that he's arguing from pseudo-facts like "chocolate is better than vanilla?" Nothing could be further from the truth. A psychologist's profession is to understand people from a scientific perspective, and the objective evidence for your addiction is obvious even to the laymen here.

[solucky]

Do you have a friend that is a winning player ? Perhaps he can have a look to your game, and you both can discuss a few things. On my side it is verry helpfull to make a excelsheet with the wins/losses. In a bad streak its for me helpfull to see its not my first bad streak and i am still up xxxx$. A big problem is JOBLESS and FAMILY, I doubt that you can live from 2table NL50.

Wish you the best
Wolfgang

Stranger,

No you cannot gamble in moderation without your disease of addiction escalating. You need to admit defeat in this area of your life and find healthy hobbies to replace it.

How do I know this? I spent 10+ years of my life trying to kill myself with Cocaine. I sacrificed everything normal in my life for the euphoria that the drug offered me when I used. I did not use the drug because it made me excel in other areas of my life, I wanted the rush it gave me.NO MATTER WHAT THE COSTS. Thankfully, thru the "one day at time" method you so despise, I have 4 years of clean time and have been slowly rebuiding my life. But for me to start thinking that I can use cocaine again in moderation, would be absolutely insane. It would all start again and I would lose everything. plain and simple.

Ask yourself this? What separates me from the people who play poker successfully?How come they can play and I cannot? The answer is simple. They play to win money, and you play for the rush you get when you play. This is why you go to higher stakes because it offers more for you. This is why you call when you know you hold the losing hand, because you want the rush NOW. Not later on when you hold the best hand.

Also, this is the absolute worst place you could ask this question. You cannot expect regular poker players to help you find the answer. If an alcoholic of 20 years without a drink walks into a bar and explains his life to complete strangers, and then suggests to them that he thinks he can now have a drink now and again, at least half the bar will be willing to buy him the first drink to get him started.

Life has dealt you your hand,accept it for what it is,or be prepared to lose everything.

Hope you make the right choice, and good luck.

Down_N_Dirty

"The Definition of insanitity is reapeting the same mistakes over and over again, and then expecting different results [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]