Am I married to my pocket pairs?

deception5 · #1 06-21-2005, 08:18 AM

Sorry for all the posts - I've been on a huge downswing for the past week and a half so trying to plug some holes!

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds.

Turn: (7.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

I was folding the turn if it was 2 back to me but when the cutoff bet I thought it was a good opportunity to thin the field. Should I just bet out here? Check/fold?

Gazzbut · #2 06-21-2005, 08:26 AM

Newbie here so dont pay too much attention! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I would have folded the flop. With six players there is a good chance you could be up against trip 2's and its likely your pair is being beaten by AA so you will need to improve your hand, to do that you need another J. which is 23/1 meaning you have no where near the pot odds needed to make your bet on the flop...

Does that sound about right? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

silvershade · #3 06-21-2005, 08:26 AM

I'd say that CO probably has the flush, but its worth seeing the showdown just in case, check/call. I think the flop is ok but i wouldnt have raised on the turn with that board, in fact I may have folded.

jrz1972 · #4 06-21-2005, 08:28 AM

I would have folded the turn.

First, when you have an pair and an A hits on the flop, you need to tread carefully. Auto-folding is bad, but ignoring the A is worse.

Second, you showed aggression PF, then you bet the flop, and you still got called in 3 spots. That should be a red flag. They're not ALL on flush draws.

Finally, CO suddenly emerged out of nowhere on the turn. Why? Probably because he was afraid you were about to check behind and didn't want to miss a bet on this street. That's pretty ominous.

I think it's very unlikely that you're ahead, and even if you are you could end up losing to anybody with a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

It is not weak-tight to fold when you are obviously beaten and drawing super-thin.

sean c · #5 06-21-2005, 08:32 AM

Without the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I don't understand the turn raise.

jrz1972 · #6 06-21-2005, 08:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would have folded the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is weak. There is no reason for anybody to be in here with a 2, and just because an A flopped doesn't mean somebody has one. The flush draw is worrisome, but that's just that much more reason not to risk a free card.

I would bet out on this flop 100% of the time, planning to reevaluate if I run into aggression.

BlackRain · #7 06-21-2005, 08:37 AM

I like the PF raise but with this amount of people involved, you are really playing for a set. Therefore, the flop bet is iffy. You have to fold the turn.

Amerretto · #8 06-21-2005, 08:39 AM

*Grunching*

Not to worried abou the 2's since ( I would hope) very few people would be calling a raise with x2. The Ace hitting and the two suited are the problems on the flop. Someone with an Ace, has you beat, people at this limit seem to love to play Aces so chances are at least one person has it.

Then with three suited at the turn, it looks as if hitting a J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is no longer any good, leaving you one out with no pot odds to go for it.

Clear fold IMHO.

Bradyams · #9 06-21-2005, 08:53 AM

First, to a previous poster the J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is indeed a full out. Do you see why?

Second, I don't understand the turn check-raise. What's the point? If you are going to spend 2 bets on the turn I'd rather spend one bet on the turn, and one bet on the river and see a showdown.

sean c · #10 06-21-2005, 09:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First, to a previous poster the J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is indeed a full out. Do you see why?

Second, I don't understand the turn check-raise. What's the point? If you are going to spend 2 bets on the turn I'd rather spend one bet on the turn, and one bet on the river and see a showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Missed the 2's thx for the correction.