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  #1  
Old 11-25-2005, 10:44 AM
Spicymoose Spicymoose is offline
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Default Wild KQ

Button is really tight at 20/14/7 after 200. UTG is 44/10/1 after 100, and BB is 44/15/1.5 after 300.

On the flop I figure I have huge equity, even if I might be behind. River was a bluff raise, but maybe I should have just called? I figure there is no way I am calling after he 3-bets.


Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (11.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

River: (13.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 18.70 BB
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2005, 10:56 AM
DarkKnight DarkKnight is offline
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Default Re: Wild KQ

A passive UTG donked the turn after you flop CR with a super coordinated board. You have to call the turn for the full house but I'm tempted to fold to his initial river bet.

Does anyone consider folding this preflop to an UTG R from a 10% pfR?
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  #3  
Old 11-25-2005, 11:00 AM
surfdoc surfdoc is offline
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Default Re: Wild KQ

Your river raise is no good here. This is really not the time to try this move. He is never, ever folding here. After the strength you show by the flop CR of a preflop capper and you still get donkbet on the turn there your hand is in big trouble. The river is close between calling and folding.

Disclaimer: I have been up all night so I reserve the right to read this and barf once I get some sleep.
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2005, 11:02 AM
Spicymoose Spicymoose is offline
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Default Re: Wild KQ

[ QUOTE ]
A passive UTG donked the turn after you flop CR with a super coordinated board. You have to call the turn for the full house but I'm tempted to fold to his initial river bet.

Does anyone consider folding this preflop to an UTG R from a 10% pfR?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am almost certainly beat on the river, but I was hoping he had a straight, and would fold to what looked like a flush. Pot is huge, so it doesn't have to be right that often. I don't usually make bluffs like this, but reading all baronzeus's bluffs lattely has made me want to try.

Folding preflop might be right. I am just so used to auto3-betting KQo though. Honestly, I hadn't even looked at his numbers when I made the 3-bet. I really should start paying more attention. 3-betting could potentially be good though. Although I have an equity deficiency, I do have position, and will have a pretty good idea of where I stand. Folding can't be too wrong though, and may be right.
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  #5  
Old 11-25-2005, 11:20 AM
surfdoc surfdoc is offline
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Default Re: Wild KQ

Looking at this again, I think I like a flop bet. Hopefully button raises and you fold out some hands that you could end up chopping with and maybe someone with a singleton diamond.
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  #6  
Old 11-25-2005, 11:31 AM
Spicymoose Spicymoose is offline
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Default Re: Wild KQ

[ QUOTE ]
Looking at this again, I think I like a flop bet. Hopefully button raises and you fold out some hands that you could end up chopping with and maybe someone with a singleton diamond.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is an option. I am unsure of what scenario I would rather have though. Pot is getting big, but Buttons PRF is tiny, and he almost certainly is ahead of me. On the other hand, I do have a lot of outs to trips/2pair/straight, so I was thinking I kinda wanted the others in to pad my equity.

I am unsure of what is best though, this one really had me confused.
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2005, 12:45 PM
Guy McSucker Guy McSucker is offline
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Default Re: Wild KQ

[ QUOTE ]

On the flop I figure I have huge equity, even if I might be behind.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're very often behind here of course: that button preflop cap looks ugly. There's a chance you've got QQ or TT beat, which is actually what I think is happening here given the action.

I am less optmistic about your equity than you are. What are your outs when behind? Kings maybe, for sure. Queens, less so because they fill a gutshot for someone else. Tens, yup. But there are the diamonds to worry about. Overall I am less than enthusiastic about the raise which is unlikely to get anyone out. Betting out and getting raised might clean up some Q outs for you so I quite like that.

Once the button folds of course it looks like you're raising with the best hand, so what do I know?

When UTG donks the turn it looks like you're in trouble but you even have odds to try to fill up... I can't bring myself to fold it on the river either, though, so this pot odds argument is just bunk. Call it down and keep him honest!

When he bets the scary river, no way do I bluff-raise. If he had a straight or some other kind of made hand with no diamond I think he would check-call. That's just the way these passive guys do things.

As for the preflop, KQo is a funny in between hand I can't make my mind up about. Lots of people three-bet it religiously. I have toyed with mucking to a raise and three-betting, and I am really none the wiser at the moment. When you're running good people will automuck to your flop bet if you three-bet, so doing that seems like a good plan. When you're running bad you just end up pumping the pot with no hand and getting called by A-high. Hmmm.

Guy.
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2005, 12:57 PM
Spicymoose Spicymoose is offline
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Default Re: Wild KQ

[ QUOTE ]
When he bets the scary river, no way do I bluff-raise. If he had a straight or some other kind of made hand with no diamond I think he would check-call. That's just the way these passive guys do things.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the turn, I figure he has to have either trips or a straight. If he had AdTd, he probably would have played differently on the flop I think. And, there are just no other realistic flushes for him to have considering he is a tight PRF and he raised UTG. That said, I think he could still be betting his straight or trips on the river, hoping that I didn't have the diamond. I dunno about bluff-raising, as this is probably my first one ever. But I think it might work the necessary 1 in 8. Normally I think I would call, but I think that is probably wrong, as I doubt we are ahead even 1 in 15, and so would be doing so mainly just to look at his cards [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].


[ QUOTE ]
As for the preflop, KQo is a funny in between hand I can't make my mind up about. Lots of people three-bet it religiously. I have toyed with mucking to a raise and three-betting, and I am really none the wiser at the moment. When you're running good people will automuck to your flop bet if you three-bet, so doing that seems like a good plan. When you're running bad you just end up pumping the pot with no hand and getting called by A-high. Hmmm.


[/ QUOTE ]

Against opponents who arn't super tight preflop raisers, or from most people raising in MP or CO, I almost always 3-bet KQo. Against a tight raiser from UTG though, I think it becomes much closer, and may be a fold.
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2005, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Wild KQ

I'm tossing up to KQ and AJ against this guy's UTG raise. I think he'd have to be about as far back as the CO before I'd repop him.
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2005, 08:29 AM
Spicymoose Spicymoose is offline
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Default Re: Wild KQ

Does anyone else raise this river?
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