Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Topics > Science, Math, and Philosophy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:21 AM
bobman0330 bobman0330 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 52
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

[ QUOTE ]
I am saying I cannot believe in things which are illogical. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you've decided that what you believe to be the truth about determinism and morality is in some way "bad" even though you don't believe in any absolute standard of goodness or morality. I wouldn't go off impugning other's rationality just yet.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:27 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you explain? When I say this state of beliefs is bad I don't mean bad as in morality, I mean bad as is this sucks.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:28 AM
chezlaw chezlaw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, England
Posts: 58
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you explain? When I say this state of beliefs is bad I don't mean bad as in morality, I mean bad as is this sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]
What difference does it make?

chez
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:30 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

What difference does what make?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:31 AM
chezlaw chezlaw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, England
Posts: 58
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

[ QUOTE ]
What difference does what make?

[/ QUOTE ]
whether your will is free or not?

chez
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:35 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

I think it matters tremendously; specifically in holding yourself and others accountable for what you do. If someone had to do something it can't be right to judge them for what they do.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:35 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

You are making choices. The fact that will isn't "free" doesn't mean that will doesn't exist. I think you're overusing reductionism here. You are making choices, you are just making them according to logical processes.

When you make a choice, that whole process may exist as a series of predetermined chemical mechanics in your brain. But you still control the choice you make.

When you say that you can't not do what you are doing, you assume that you yourself are separate from your choice. But you aren't. You are a result of causal mechanics as much as anything else. To say you "can't choose not to choose what you choose" is like asking whether God can create something so heavy even he can't lift it. There is no "you" to not do what you're doing. You are part of your choices, your choices reflect you and you reflect them.

The assumption of some outside "agent" who is limited by determinism isn't consistent with the idea of determinism.

To put it another way, you don't have the ability to float into the air. Does that mean your body limits you? In a certain sense I suppose it does - but there would be no "you" to float into the air without your body. Regardless, being depressed because you can't magically "go against" gravity seems silly to me. I believe determinism and a desire to "go against" determinism are similar.

What is it in particular that makes you feel depressed?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:36 AM
Lestat Lestat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 383
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

<font color="blue"> This seems to me an unsatisfactory solution. What do I do? </font>

Design your life.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:37 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

[ QUOTE ]
I think it matters tremendously; specifically in holding yourself and others accountable for what you do. If someone had to do something it can't be right to judge them for what they do.

[/ QUOTE ]

It can't be wrong to judge them either.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:38 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences

Can I not make this post?

I'm not really depressed. I'm actually quite a happy person. It's just the idea of not being able to do something else than what I do that get's me down.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.