Craps

BlindingLaser · #1 10-20-2005, 06:57 PM

What I googled up seemed to mostly be dice-setting, but mentioned something they called a "whip-throw", which presumably puts enough backspin on the dice to basically keep them on the four sides that are spinning vertically while the dice are getting thrown. Presumably, if you could eliminate even one face of one die on some percentage of your throws you could place advantageous bets, since craps has such a relatively small HA.

In terms of dice-setting, over how many rolls would you have to have a significant difference from the normal distribution to be significant? It would be smaller than the number of required hands in a significant sample size in poker, because there's a smaller number of outcomes, correct?

I guess I'm partially interested because if everybody thinks it's voodoo, there wouldn't be a lot of heat attached, correct? Are you allowed to set the dice in plain view, or is that frowned upon?

SheetWise · #2 10-20-2005, 07:49 PM

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Are you allowed to set the dice in plain view, or is that frowned upon?

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In most places, it's encouraged. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Double Down · #3 10-20-2005, 07:57 PM

I have taken a dice setting/precision shooting seminar in Vegas. Yes, it only lasted for the weekend, but by the end, I was throwing the dice for significantly more rolls before I would crap out. And the guys who were teaching the course definitely threw for longer periods than an average shooter. And these guys had been doing this for a living for years.

Sharpshooter has a book called Get the Edge at Craps which is one of the better books on the subject. However, you really need to learn how to do it in person. PM me if you're interested and I can pass along the info from the guys I learned from.

Because of the current "questionability" of precision shooting, a lot of craps dealers still don't believe in it. However, if you are taking too long to set the dice or throw them, you will be asked to hurry it along. This is usually just to keep the game moving though. They will also ask you to hit the back wall. To my knowledge, no one has ever been barred for setting and precision shooting dice, but there were times when we all showed up to a couple joints and we got a little heat. After all, every shooter was taking his sweet time. But it's a lot like counting cards, where part of learning is being able to do it quickly and smoothly enough that it doesn't look out of place.

#4 10-20-2005, 09:35 PM

I cannot believe I'm hearing this!

Is there no end to people thinking they can beat an unbeatable game? Casino owners really love you guys.

PokerCat69 · #5 10-25-2005, 01:12 AM

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I cannot believe I'm hearing this!

Is there no end to people thinking they can beat an unbeatable game? Casino owners really love you guys.

[/ QUOTE ]
WTF do you hang around here?
We all play poker and win money, and some of us also enjoy other casino games. This is the reason for this forum. If you think all casino games cannot be beaten, why do you read these threads?

#6 10-25-2005, 03:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I cannot believe I'm hearing this!

Is there no end to people thinking they can beat an unbeatable game? Casino owners really love you guys.

[/ QUOTE ]
WTF do you hang around here?
We all play poker and win money, and some of us also enjoy other casino games. This is the reason for this forum. If you think all casino games cannot be beaten, why do you read these threads?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly for the poker because poker can be beat which is why I play it. It's one thing to ask how to play or what is the best way to play the game in question but to think an unbeatable game can be beat is just stupid and I'm going to tell you about it.

So why are you so concerned with defending chumps on this site that only plague this board???

SheetWise · #7 10-21-2005, 12:18 AM

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... I was throwing the dice for significantly more rolls before I would crap out.

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Apparently they didn't spend a lot of time on terminology.

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... we all showed up to a couple joints and we got a little heat. After all, every shooter was taking his sweet time. But it's a lot like counting cards...

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It's nothing like counting cards. What you mistook for "heat", was frustration over the pace of the game. If you were putting up any action, the response would have been comps.

stickman · #8 10-21-2005, 11:03 AM

Why does everyone think they can get rich in this game? Especially grinding it out with nickel cheques. I used to deal and supervise craps. All "precision shooters" lost like the others. Scoblete and his "crew" played at my table several times, and lost just like the other suckers.
The only reason we put heat on these guys was because they brought the game to a grinding halt.

#9 10-21-2005, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why does everyone think they can get rich in this game? Especially grinding it out with nickel cheques. I used to deal and supervise craps. All "precision shooters" lost like the others. Scoblete and his "crew" played at my table several times, and lost just like the other suckers.
The only reason we put heat on these guys was because they brought the game to a grinding halt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because people are stupid.

Double Down · #10 10-21-2005, 11:53 PM

Why do you people refuse to accept the possibility that precision shooting works? Is it because it cannot be proven mathematically? Well, for what it's worth, it cannot be DISproven mathematically like betting progressions. For one weekend, I was witness to guys throwing the dice for 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour at a time, and these were not exceptions. These long rolls came at a much greater occurrence than what the statistics would show (which I believe the average roll is around 8 throws before crapping out).
Yes, I too like to see the cold, hard numbers before giving anything absolute merit, so I would not bet everything I own on whether or not precision shooting works, but I will say that what I saw that weekend was pretty incredible and the gentlemen running it gave me no reason to believe that what was occurring was unusual. It was the norm for them.

Considering you guys have very little or no experience with precision shooting, it's ignorant of you to dismiss it so quickly. I'm done talking about it. If you are interested, PM me and I can pass along some info. If not, please try to make arguments that have some substance. To the guy who was a craps dealer and watched Scoblete lose, who cares? That's like saying, "Counting isn't for real, Stanford Wong was at my table and he lost a bundle." It's totally fallacious logic that just because you were witness to a couple losing sessions we should dismiss an entire type of advantage play.