Can a Former Addict become a good Poker Player?

[Python49]

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He knows how to play correctly but he can't do it.

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If he cannot get self control then yeah, he won't be able to beat the game. If he did however learn to control his play and play the game the winning way... crushing a $100 NL game isn't the most challenging thing in the world

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[Python49]

Also, I don't want to give the impression that i'm suggesting this guy continue playing, that's far from how I feel. He's already stated however that he is not looking to hear that advice, and wants to know if its just *possible* for him to be a winning player. Telling him he can't change his gambling habits is like telling a cocaine addict they'll never be able to quit... it CAN be done but its extermely hard and up to them. But ofcourse in my opinion I think it's time to stop playin gthe game.. you won't be able to make back hundreds of thousands of dollars playing $50 NL.

[BigDukeSix]

It seems to me the 'game' you need to beat, is the addiction (any addiction)

Research the subject, become an authority, master your destiny. Drink from the clear waters of the lake of knowledge, that you, and only you have defeated and escaped from the prison of your soul.

There is a purity in truth, and only you can really know that truth.

After all that go back to the poker.

There is a good quote from a pro (Chris Ferguson I think) in the Lee Jones Book, about taking time off from poker, read a book, go for a walk, listen to some music etc.

Good advice IMHO

[punter11235]

Face some facts :

-about 10% of all players can consistently beat the game
-this 10% are players with great talent, discipline, psychologically healthy and with good attitude to gambling
-not even 5% of this 10% are pros;
-these less than 0.05% of players are people EXCEPTIONALLY gifted in this area

Now try to make educated guess what's your chances to be in this less than 0.05% group...
-you have gambling addiction
-you are psychologically unsteady
-you are not one of the best players at 100NL which is ridicously soft
-you "cant fold" which mean you dont have good discipline which is very difficult to master and is crucial poker skill
-its still possible that your addiction will be back one night, you will lose control and you will lose more than all your efforts for previous months or even years

If you ask if its possible that you will make it. It is. But its not more likely than winning lottery.
What you have to win ? Some money and not so fascinating job which playing poker is. Its for sure not more money than you can make doing normal job with real people having normal social life. What do you have to lose ? Your family, your health, your life.
You see poker is about making objective decisions based on facts and not your inside fears or delusions.
Try to make good decision in life first.

Best wishes

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

It is possible for you to become a good player. However it is very unlikely based on your past, and even if you did become a great winning player it may open up more unseen problems.

I HIGHLY recomend you never play poker or gamble in any other form ever again in your life. May sound harsh but its good advice.

[PairTheBoard]

You say your problem as a poker player is being unable to fold a losing hand. Given your history as a compulsive gambler, the Idea that you can control and enjoy your poker is a hand you need to Fold. It's a Loser.

PairTheBoard

[CaptSensible]

You ask if it's possible that an addict can become a good gambler? The answer is yes. It's also possible to win the lottery.

Listen to Dr. Al. He's telling you that the chances are EXTREMELY slim and you'd be risking all that you currently have in your life.

I've been clean from Cocaine and many other drugs for nearly 15 years. I am a member of AA. I attribute a large part of my sobriety to listening to what others who have more experience and knowledge have to say and doing what they have suggested.

Is losing everything you have worth it finding out if you could be a good poker player? In my opinion the answer is no.

Is it worth it for me to lose everything I've gained over the last 15 years to have a beer with a pizza or a joint at a party? The answer is absolutely not.

Given the information in your post my advice is to put the chips down and walk away from the table. It's just not worth it.

Get professional help (i'm sure you are being treated for your bi-polarity).
I'm being treated for depression and ADD and understand addictive personality and mental disorders.
I sincerely hope you listen the the posts on here and decide to focus your life energy on yourself and your family and not poker.

I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors.

[Derek in NYC]

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#1) losing hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

#2) It has completely destroyed my life, in various ways

I am jobless at this point,

my family will eat and my house payment will be made along

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You have a family, a mortgage, and no job. You have a history as a losing, problem gambler. If you play with fire, do not cry if you get burned.

I will give you one piece of advice: ask your wife what she thinks, and do whatever she recommends. If she does not support your choice, you cannot in good conscience gamble despite her objections.

On the other hand, she is in the best position to determine if you are truly a "different person" and can handle responsible gambling. A bunch of anonymous 2p2ers will not give you good advice.

[revots33]

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I'm here trying to find out if it is true or not that once you have certain personalities that lead you to become a gambling addict.... Can you make it a game of skill - Or are you eternally doomed to repeat the same mistakes an alchoholic would make no matter how much effort you put into it.

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Poker is a gambling game. There is an element of skill involved, but do not kid yourself into thinking it's not gambling. It is. And if you are a compulsive gambler you absolutely need to avoid it, just as you'd avoid alcohol or drugs. I think it is irresponsible for anyone to recommend that an admitted compulsive gambler do anything other than stop gambling. I wish you the best of luck.

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Al, out of all people that post here, especially this section of 2 + 2 I highly regard your opinion. I do think though, that your argument here is subjective. I say that for these reasons only.

Not because I believe I can beat the game at low levels, not because I think I can make spare change to pay me car payment, and most certainly not because I could ever even think at this point of my life I have the mind frame to play this game at a level YOU can.

But for ONCE in my life I am making the proper moves. I 'AM' dropping limits to where I feel I can beat the field. I am not playing $1K NL. I AM asking for advice and TRULY taking it to heart (including yours). I am making a concious effort to change the behavioral patterns that led me to the incredible mis fortune I have seen in my life.

I STILL will tell people to this day, even if I lsot $100K the night before (and it has happened) that poker is NOT a game of LUCK, it is a game of skill. Is luck involved?

ABSOLUTELY!!!

But skill trumps luck in the long run.


'You may succeed for a brief time, but the psychological characteristics that made you into an addict are still operating, and they will almost certainly continue to operate.'

This, is the main issue and the focus of this particular thread Al. I am Bi-Polar, I am an alchoholic, and I have abused damn near every drug known to man. They have ALL completely ruined my life in some way, shape, or form. Some worse than others.

I have control over my alchoholism, my drug addictions, and I have even quit smoking !!!! To put it into perspective to do all of those things over the course of 18 months is what ABSOLUTELY ANY DRUG COUNSELOR 'WILL' tell you is impossible and strongly .... strongly.... dis-advocated.

They say, one step at a time.. blah blah blah ... Not who I am [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Now this does NOT mean I will succeed, and you may very well be right Al. But it isn't 'quite' as cut and dry as you put it.

Some people will say...

"Well, once an alchoholic always an alchoholic"

True?

YES!

I'm here trying to find out if it is true or not that once you have certain personalities that lead you to become a gambling addict.... Can you make it a game of skill - Or are you eternally doomed to repeat the same mistakes an alchoholic would make no matter how much effort you put into it.


Do the sensible thing. Accept reality and the opinion of experts: Leave poker and all other forms of gambling alone.

ALL ther forms of gambling except poker have been left alone, if you knew the stories of my other forms of gambling, and the comps alone I have recieved in Vegas you would feel Pity for me. That is not what I am here for though.

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Until I read this post, I was thinking to myself "yeah, well, probably not, but maybe...."

This post changed that.

With this post, the only advice I can give you is to run away and run fast.

I have suffered from addictive tendencies before as well - and the stage you are in now is the "rationalizing" stage. You have made some "rules" and given yourself some "structure" and you think that this makes it ok for you to continue.

In so doing, you have done what most people do in your situation and missed the massive warning signal.

Instead of saying "this is ruining my life, so I want to stop", you have basically just given yourself permission to continue.

Answer this question - if is wasn't for this new approach that you say you are taking, could you, in good conscience, continue to play poker?

I already know that the answer is "no". You have said as much. So this is you giving yourself permission to play. This is you enabling yourself to continue with an unhealthy habit.

And I have no doubt that for a while, it will work. For a while, you will play solid, fundamental poker. For a while, you will succeed. But it won't last.

You need to keep something in mind. You are not an alcohol addict or a drug addict or a poker addict. You are an addict. You are the sort of person who gets addicted to things that make you feel good - and winning at poker makes you feel good. Don't you realize that this is why you get so angry when you lose? Its because when you lose, you are that much further away from winning and it is the winning that makes you feel good.

You need to step away from all of this. You need to find alternative, healthier ways to feel pleasure. This is a LONG process and it is clear that you have really just taken the first steps - even if those steps took you many years to take.