questions on a bubble hand

MrDannimal · #1 11-04-2004, 01:49 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG (t1855)
Button (t1300)
Hero (t3230)
BB (t1615)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t1855 (All-In), Button folds, Hero raises to t3230 (All-In), BB calls t1215 (All-In).

Flop: (t6700) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: (t6700) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 3 all-in)

River: (t6700) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: t6700
Main Pot: t4845 (t4845), between UTG, Hero and BB. > Pot won by Hero (t4845).
Pot 2: t480 (t480), between UTG and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (t480).
Pot 3: t1375 (t1375), returned to Hero.

Results in white below: 
UTG has Qh 7d (two pair, sevens and sixes).
Hero has Ts Th (two pair, tens and sixes).
BB has Qc As (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins t6700. 

My thoughts:

First, this was from one of those $7+1 PPM IV mini-satellites (1st and 2nd get a buyin to a 26+2 SNG which then pays out an entry to one of the semi-finals. 3rd gets $14). Just an FYI.

I felt pretty sure that UTG was just pushing with a halfway decent hand because he was short and facing t600 in blinds. I pushed to get the BB to fold, figuring that the last thing he wanted was to finish 4th (which he would if he AND UTG busted out this hand or if he just lost to me).

By "halfway decent" I mean that I figure UTG has one overcard to my 10s.

Questions:

1) Is that an okay move (assuming like I did that UTG has 1 overcard), pushing with TT where I have the other guy covered by about 2:1, and if I lose will put me about on par with the other two?

2) How bad is the BB's play, pushing with AQo after I'd already pushed? His relative position doesn't change if he folds. Either I have T1400 and UTG has T3600 (and he has T1855) or I have T6700 and he's locked into 3rd or better with his T1855.

Feel free to abuse me at will. I'm very new to the whole SNG thing (at least in a serious sense), and I'm thick skinned enough to handle it.

Klak · #2 11-04-2004, 02:23 PM

i don't think this play is so bad at all. your raise should have discouraged anyone else from calling. but you shouldnt mind the call since you are in no matter what since you cant bust out here and you have a massive advantage if you win.

Costanza · #3 11-04-2004, 04:29 PM

Consider your source here before taking anything I say too seriously: a break-even $5 SNG (finally back up to even! woohoo!) player who has been reading this fourm for about a month.

I think your play is fine. That all-in smells of a steal, you have his stack covered and are probably a favorite preflop. Good call.

As for the BB, I think that's a little more complicated. If it were me, I'd have probably folded and let you guys duke it out. Now, let's consider my SnG results. I'm about 45% ITM with a ROI of 0 after about 50 recorded results. Of those I only have 2 first place finishes.

With the format of this tournament the goal should be to finish in the top 2. One top 2 finish would be equal to two 3rd place finishes. This then becomes read dependent. I wish I hadn't looked at the results and just knew that BB had AQ. I don't think it would be unreasonable for him to conclude that UTG could be pushing any 2, just like you did. Depending on a read, I think he might assume that you would be willing to call with a hand that he might have dominated. Your call also could easily represent a middle pair. So this gives him 2.5:1 pot odds on what could reasonably be read as a coin flip.

Like I said, I'm in the process of learning also. And I'm pretty sure that if I had been at that table playing in real time instead of looking at it with the results in front of me and more time to think it through that I would have folded. But I think the call was reasonable. Coming from someone who seems to be stuck in finishing 3rd mode, I'm wondering if that's the type of call people who have more 1st/4th's than 3rd's make.

As it turned out, he wasn't far off. And if UTG had a J instead of a Q he would have been in even better shape.

I've got a thick skin too, so please let me know if I'm thinking about this correctly.

wjmooner · #4 11-04-2004, 04:36 PM

This may or may not be a steal. With the blinds at 400 the correct strategy is to push in with any hand. I'd do this with two overs, even an overpair to Tens.

Having said that, you have the 5th best starting hand in poker and are almost assured of placing if you win the hand.

And yes, get the thing heads up by pushing instead of smoothcalling. TT is nice, but it isn't that nice.

WJ

rjb03 · #5 11-04-2004, 08:12 PM

You're pushing QJ after an open push or are you talking about open pushing yourself?

timprov · #6 11-05-2004, 01:22 AM

Your play is fine, but you should realize that your push here is entirely pointless.