Is this just bad luck?

#1 07-28-2005, 02:41 PM

this seems to happen to me 9/10 times. does this happen to you?

Paradise Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG (poster) checks, 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG folds, CO calls.

Turn: (4 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Results in white below: 
CO has Ks Qs (two pair, kings and tens).
Hero has 4c Kh (two pair, kings and tens).
Outcome: CO wins 8 BB. 

Paradise Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has 4d Kd (straight, ace high).
Hero has As 9c (two pair, aces and nines).
Outcome: UTG wins 12.50 BB. 

Paradise Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (18.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 24.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kh 8s (two pair, kings and eights).
CO has 8c 6d (straight, nine high).
SB has Kd 7d (two pair, kings and sevens).
Outcome: CO wins 24.50 BB. 

This frustrating me as it seems to happen to me 9/10 times. Im not sure what i should do.

POKhER · #2 07-28-2005, 02:46 PM

These are bad beats, You note this down in the players notes.

For example hand 3: you note CO is a loose/maniac who cold called 2bets after your 3bet/caps with MIDDLE PAIR CRAP KICKER.

Dont post these, They leavelittle to be discussed.

Other hands you were counterfitted, Its just unlucky.

On a side note:
Hand 1 FOLD PREFLOP
hand 2 FOLD PREFLOP

TripleH68 · #3 07-28-2005, 02:59 PM

Hand 1 is an easy fold preflop.

Hand 2 is bad luck.

Hand 3 you may have overplayed the river.

imported_The Vibesman · #4 07-28-2005, 03:00 PM

The first hand I wouldn't complete out of the small blind, too open to domination, too hard to play out of position. I would also just lead out on the flop, you checkraise here but what made you think anyone would bet at it? I think the check/call on the river is fine, chances are that CO limped in and bet/called flop raise/called turn with some kind of K, and he is guaranteed to outkick you when your two pair is counterfeited, but it is possible he is on a flush draw and wouldn't call a bet after missing it but might bluff at the pot. I didn't look at your results, but given the title of your post, I would guess it's the former.

The second hand is kind of a questionable call preflop I think, it's the kind of hand where you need to know what kind of hands your opponents are limping, but at this level and with the table as passive as this appears and you on, it may not be that bad. It's a very borderline hand tho, esp. multiway. Once you're in it tho, I think your line is fine.
3rd hand looks fine. Either the flop cap or the turn raise might be overdoing it a bit. I think when SB leads the turn even after you capped the flop I'd slow down.

Eeegah · #5 07-28-2005, 03:14 PM

Hand 1: Please don't complete with King-Rag, seriously the hand sucks unless you're going for a blind steal, and even then it's just barely better than average. After that, you got railroaded, oh well; make a note of the cutoff that he's extremely passive preflop, as KQs is worth a raise anywhere.

Hand 2: Closer since it's 8 handed, but I still can't get myself to play A9o. I would grudgingly play ATo though so I won't hate this. As it happened, yeah that board blew, but that's how it goes.

Hand 3: That 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] both completes a flush draw and puts 4 to a straight on the board. There's no point in you betting out this river.

2+2 Junkie · #6 07-28-2005, 03:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this seems to happen to me 9/10 times. does this happen to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because I fold the first two hands.

Seriously, though, yes, it happens to all of us. There is nothing you can do. I am responding to this because I was exactly like you.
This year is my first year playing on-line limit poker. I was a NL live card player for years, but just this January I decided to play on-line. I put in money, read SSHE, lurked around these boards, and played primarly/exclusively on Poker Stars. The tables are tight, but I didn't know it, it was all I knew. I was making money at a pretty good clip and decided that I would try party and empire. Everyone here was having such good luck and saying they were crushing the games there. "The softest on the net" was all I heard. So I tried them. I got hammered. Every kind of bad beat you can imagine, every kind of suckout and horrible play in the world was killing me. TPTK sucked, AA-QQ suckes, AK sucked. So, I kept studying, kept posting, kept lurking. Still nothing. I would post on this site, complaining "how come I suck, how come I can't win, look at my stats, what can I do." All to no avail. I got stuff like variance, you are fine keep playing. The whole time I am saying, hey, i am good at tight tables, these loose tables are impossible and no one can tell me that playing good hands pre-flop will hold up. Someone will always suckout. I had a 16,000 card downswing of 220BB. I was mostly up and down, never any good runs. I began to think I wasn't good enough to hang. I posted my stats and again, variance was credited mostly (along with some other good points that I took to heart). I decided I wasn't going to play those sites anymore, I wasn't good enough and no one here could tell me why I couldn't play.
Then, all of a sudden, I began to win. Nothing dramatic had changed in my play (sure I had tightened up some loose ends, learned some new concepts, but overall the same). Those morons who kept chasing, stopped hitting. The morons who played Ax didn't suck two pair to my AK. It just stopped. I made more in one week than my last 16K hands. A light came on and I realized that bad beats are good. Why are bad beats good you might ask? Because it means I am playing with people who are playing bad poker, and I am playing good poker. They needed help, I did not. Therefore my play was correct, there's was -EV. The looser the table, the better. Newbies, focus on this fact: If you play with loose bad players, you will lose more pots, BUT YOU WILL WIN BIGGER ONES . Embrace the fish. Love it when he/she chases, compliment him when he hits his miracle. BE ABLE TO SHRUG IT OFF AND CONTINUE TO PLAY GOOD POKER. If you feel you can't do this walk away, come back when you can play good poker. The fish have to win sometimes, otherwise they wouldn't be there to donate to the rest of us.
So, post, post, and post some more. There is a ton of good advice here and they will correct you when you are wrong. Study books, review your stats, but most importantly, keep playing. If you play correctly, you will succeed. Good luck.

#7 07-28-2005, 03:43 PM

I really appreciate this post. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

irishpint · #8 07-28-2005, 03:47 PM

do people really fold A9o on the button in hand 2?? that's either a raise or call for me. even w/ 2 limpers.

Eeegah · #9 07-28-2005, 03:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
do people really fold A9o on the button in hand 2?? that's either a raise or call for me. even w/ 2 limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

A good number of poker books (SSHE in particular) specifically mention A9o as not worth playing ever. I'll very occasionally limp with it on the button depending on the table, I won't hate someone for folding it.

imported_The Vibesman · #10 07-28-2005, 03:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
do people really fold A9o on the button in hand 2?? that's either a raise or call for me. even w/ 2 limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's table dependent, I have a hard time playing it when I don't have a good feel for what my opponents are limping with. Sometimes I get weak-tighties limping w/ AT offsuit, 99 or other hands they should raise and sometimes it's limp w/ any two.