What I'm reading today

[PygmyHero]

Today's reading was sent to me via PM by a longtime and well respected poster (who has graduated the ML forum, but still stops in now and then). Again, I really appreciate the links - I can never have enough reading.

I think this may have occurred in part because I threw in a sports analogy in one of my posts...

Forum: Mid-, High-Stakes PL & NL HE (don't be intimidated)
Poster: ML4L
Post: The Running Game
Number: 3313830
Date: 9.4.05

I thought this was really interesting (and who's comprehension is not aided by a cogent sports metaphor?), and a well-articulated explanation of why you need to mix up your game. While it may be a little more germane to higher limits (I can already hear people saying that low limit players pay absolutely no attention to what you do), I still think it has it's place in the ML world.


Note to mods: I have changed the subject of the post to reflect the content, which I realize I should have been doing all along. Someone looking at the thread in threaded mode is going to have quite a time finding any one specific post. Obviously it is too late for me to change any of the old ones, but if you're bored...

Alternatively, if you're willing to make the changes, but unwilling to look through all the old posts and choose an appropriate subject line, please PM me and I'll send you back a list of titles, along with the accompanying dates. Thanks!

Rock on Pygmy!

This has been one of my favorite threads since I joined 2+2. It's giving me a lot of avenues to expand my horizons. Thanks for continuing to contribute to this!

[PygmyHero]

I was involved in the following hand the other day:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Of course, at some point in the hand, I realized my kicker wasn't going to hold up (yes I know the 4 wasn't in play at the end - point is, I'm losing the hand unless I'm against a stone cold bluff), but I was having problems laying down trip aces (not the point of today's post, but can I really fold this hand?). Then I remembered once reading something about a way ahead / way behind line, and realizing that it must apply here (in that I'm either outkicked, badly, or I am crushing every hand that isn't 88).

So I decided to do some research, and I thought I'd share it here. I messed up the WA/WB line pretty badly (it should be check/call the flop and turn, bet the river).

I would recommed starting with this post, paying particular attention to what Entity says. This is a great intro to WA/WB as Entity explains the line clearly and concisely.

Forum: Microlimit Archives
Poster: BellyBuster7
Post: Ace-Ten vs. solid player
Number: 1874964
Date: 3.7.05

Now if you understand the concepts of WA/WB, the next thread will be very beneficial because it discusses why the line is better than some alternatives, namely leading the flop, or check raising the flop or turn.

Forum Microlimit Archives
Poster: Chris Daddy Cool
Post: Standard Hand 101
Number: 888296
Date: 8.3.04

If you feel like you have a solid understanding of WA/WB, feel free to skip the next two links, and go to the bottom link on the page (which is so important that I should probably devote a whole post to it). If you're not, or if you just feel like you could benefit from some more reinforcement, here are two more examples, though there's not too much in the way of new discussion in these threads. Also, be aware that they may link to / be linked from the two top links I posted.

Forum: SSH Archives
Poster: jason t
Post: A simple situation I hate being in
Number: 1905588
Date: 3.11.05

Forum: Microlimit Archives
Poster: davelin
Post: Did I Screw Up the Line?
Number: 2106330
Date: 4.8.05

And now, this last thread is deceptively titled because it won't really further you understanding of WA/WB specifically. However, it will help you with your repertoire of plays, as a whole. Part of understanding the WA/WB line is understanding other lines and when and why each one is applicable in certain situations.

Forum: Microlimits
Poster: soma
Post: Instances of WA/WB
Number: 2206499
Date: 4.21.05

Schillx pulls a little bit of a thread hijack here (great hijack), and talk about different plays he uses in different situations. Unfortunately, he only gives greater detail and examples for about half of them, but this is really an incredible resource.

[PygmyHero]

I had what I thought was a really great hand example for inducing bluffs, but unfortunately I was unable to obtain the HH due to the fact that Paradise will only send me the 100 most recently played hands. Here's the gist:

Paradise 1/2 (5 max, 5 handed)
Hero is in CO with AA
Folded to me, I raise, everyone but the BB drops.

Flop is J62r
BB checks, I bet, BB calls.

Turn is 7 or bricks
BB checks, I check.

River 4 of bricks
BB bets, I call.

Villain shows KQo for K high.

I think the BB folds most hands to a turn bet here, which I don't want when I think he's drawing very thin (in the hand, he was totally dead). But I think a lot of people interpret checking the turn as indicating weakness (most likely putting the person of UI overs), and can't help bluffing at the river. I checked? Clearly you should bet.

On the end, calling is clearly correct as villain many times will not call a raise (even with a J here I think it'd be tough) unless he can beat you.

Here's King Yao on inducing bluffs. I haven't read his book yet (Weighing the Odds in Hold 'Em Poker), but I've heard nothing but good things about it. It's lined up on my bookshelf and I hope to get to it before the end of the year. If the book is as well written as this post, it will be a tremendous resource.

Forum: HUSH Archives
Poster: skunkworks
Post: General question about inducing bluffs
Number: 719642
Date: 5.30.04

And here's an old friend of the ML forum with a related post:

Forum: Microlimits
Poster: GrunchCan
Post: Fold Equity &amp; Bluffing (x-post)
Number: 3502712
Date: 9.26.05

[PygmyHero]

I wouldn't really recommend reading the whole thread (which I did), as most of it is filled with witty little aphormisms like: "raise." I thought this was one of the better, more thoughtful pieces of advice, and was worth sharing.

(Note on the forum: I always specify when a piece is in the archives when I link to it, but of course any thread could get moved the day after I post it, which I imagine would result in a broken link. The reason I bring this up is because today's link is currently still on the 2+2 server, but based on the date, I think it is more likely than some other posts to be archived soon. As I stated in the OP, that is why I provide so much information which may seem superlous - date, number, etc. - it will make it easier to find via search even if the thread gets archived.)

Forum: Poker Theory
Poster: JohnBond
Post: Best Poker Advice ever?
Number: 2272548
Date: 4.29.05

[ QUOTE ]

If you feel like you have a solid understanding of WA/WB, then definitely read the next two links, then go to the bottom link on the page (which is so important that I should probably devote a whole post to it). If you're not, or if you just feel like you could benefit from some more reinforcement, here are two more examples, though there's not too much in the way of new discussion in these threads. Also, be aware that they may link to / be linked from the two top links I posted.

Forum: SSH Archives
Poster: jason t
Post: A simple situation I hate being in
Number: 1905588
Date: 3.11.05

Forum: Microlimit Archives
Poster: davelin
Post: Did I Screw Up the Line?
Number: 2106330
Date: 4.8.05



[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

Great work Pygmy.

Hand 1. I think Jason's line is best.
This way you get overcards to fold or call incorrectly.
Hand 2. Important post from JRZ1972 (last post on the page).

[MrWookie47]

Are you saying you like jason_t's fold? I am pretty sure I call that. Other than that I like his line.

This has been a good series. I've read a lot of the threads in here, but it's good to see some new ones I haven't. It's even good to reread the ones I've already read because I see things like this:

[ QUOTE ]
tiltaholic
stranger


Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 7

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying you like jason_t's fold? I am pretty sure I call that. Other than that I like his line.

This has been a good series. I've read a lot of the threads in here, but it's good to see some new ones I haven't. It's even good to reread the ones I've already read because I see things like this:

[ QUOTE ]
tiltaholic
stranger


Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 7

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I did write some stuff about the river but I lost it and had to redo the post.

On the river, I think b\f, c\c and c\f are all pretty close.

I like reading posts when Jason T was unsure about himself, when the WA\WB line was a new thing and Qtip had 31 posts.

The content in some of these posts is exceptional.

Once again, Nice work Pygmy.

[Guruman]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying you like jason_t's fold? I am pretty sure I call that. Other than that I like his line.



[/ QUOTE ]

I never got a cogent response on why betting the turn was bad. True, I was even more brutal as a poker player then than I am now, but still. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[PygmyHero]

Ah Wookie, you obviously missed one where GregJ was at...honestly, I think it might have been 3.

Anyway, glad you guys have been enjoying (and reading) the series.