Guidance into O8 (extremely long.)

[dibbs]

Hey all,

Over winter break I decided to spend some time away from small stakes NLHE games and SNGs and play some micro limit O8. I enjoy the game and have played it for quite some time in home mix games but never really focused on it. The following is somewhat of a Cliffnotes edition of the hand histories of the first 300 hands of my journey into O8. I apologize for the length of it but anyone with spare time who’d care to critique any plays or comment on starting hand selection etc., I’d greatly appreciate it.

These are every one of the “highlight” hands, basically any hands played outside the BB (or its listed if there is action on the BB). The A2 combo hands that I left out any flop info were basically where I flopped the nut lo or draw with other draws and the play was basically automatic. I might have misplayed them but cut them out to take some shot at brevity.

All hands played on full table Party .50/1$

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in SB. Three limpers and LP raiser, I call, limpers call.
net + 3 BBs. (take lo)


3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in LP with limper and BB.
net + 4 BBs. Scoop. (Wheel)


A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] . In LP
I have no idea why I called this. I really hate this call.
Lost 1 SB.


T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]in CO, two limpers and button + BB see flop.
net + 2 25 BBs (take lo)


Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in SB. 4 players to flop.

J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Checked around to CO who bets, I checkraise, he calls.
Turn is Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I bet. He raises, I fold.
I didn’t lead out because I felt everyone would call and leave me to defend or fold on the turn, and when only the CO bet, I thought I could at least isolate him, I think at the time I thought there was a slight chance he’d fold as well. I hate my lead on the turn, any draw he could have had hit, I guess I wanted to make him think I boated. I totally butchered this, what’s a good line for a hand like this? Does anyone not complete the SB?
Lost 2.25 BBs


K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in LP. MP player raises, three of us see flop.
net + 5 BBs. Scoop (nut flush and nut lo)


A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], SB,
fold on 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] flop.
Lost .5 SB


A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] , CO + 1, 7 to flop.
Net +3.38 BB (take lo)


4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] CO + 1, four to flop.

5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Bet from blind, EP raises, I fold.
Lost 1 SB


A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] MP, call, raise in front of me, I fold, anyone call this?
Net 0


5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG, seven see flop.
Net + 2.75 (take lo)


J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in Co, 5 to flop.

8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], checked around,
Turn 6, checked around.
River 6. Guy bets, I fold, he has AQ64.
Lost 1 SB.


3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in BB, button and SB see flop.

Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, button calls.

Turn is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], I bet, call.

River is K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], I check, he checks.

He has K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for two pair.
This is pent up holdem aggression here I guess. I figured since it was a three handed pot and I had a little something for high my driving the betting with a low to catch was a good plan. In the future I’m definitely check calling or check folding these. Any ideas?
Lost 1.5 BBs


7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in BB, four players to flop.

9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. checked around. Turn 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], checked, river K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], checked around.
Aces up are goot. Found money.
Net +1.5 BBs


2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in MP, five see flop.

4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Bet, I call, button raise, call, call, I call.

Turn is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Bet, call, call, I raise, everyone calls.

River is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Bet, call, call, button raise, call, call, call.

Button has Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q J, my flush isn’t good (which I expected) and other player had 2536 and caught a frauded lo.
Anyone just call the turn?
Lost .20 BB


5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in EP. Six see flop.

9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Checked around to button who bets and I fold.
Lost 1 SB.


9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 from button. Five see flop.

5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Check, bet, call, I call, call.

Turn is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Bet, 3 calls.

River is K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Bet and two calls.
Bettor chops lo with me, other guy has A's & T's.
Flop wasn’t great for my low but at the time apparently I thought I still had the best lo draw. Dump this on the flop?
Lost .20 BB


K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in SB, five see flop.

T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I check, sb bets, gets two callers, I fold.
Should I even complete this?
Lost .5 SB


A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG. Player to my left and Blinds see flop.

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I check, bet, two calls.

2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Check, bet, two calls.

T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Check, bet, fold, I call. He has two pair, my lo is best.
Looking at this now I feel I should have dumped on the flop?
Even call with this UTG preflop? Assuming about 90% of pots aren’t raised preflop here
Net + 1 BB.


7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in BB. Call, UTG+ 1 raises, 4 calls, five see flop.

8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] checked to preflop raiser who bets, I fold.
Lost 1 BB


2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ,3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ,4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ,5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in LP to some limpers. Button raises, 6 of us call.
Flop was bricked.
Even if I hit, I feel this was an awful momentary lapse of judgement.
Lost 1 BB


J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in SB, eight see flop.

2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check fold to a bet and two raises in front of me.
Lost .5 SB


9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in EP, player to my left raises and five of us see flop.

3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I fold to a bet.
Lost 1 BB


2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in EMP, 6 to flop.

Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. EP bets, I fold.
Lost 1 SB


2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in SB, five to flop.

4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I check fold.
Lost .5 SB


A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on button, four to flop

3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] EP bets three callers I fold.
Lost 1 SB


9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in BB. Four see flop.

Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Bet, I call, call.

Turn T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Bet, I call, raise, call, I call.

River 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Bet, I call. He has 5 J J K which was obvious on the turn
I felt the wheel draw was enough with three players? No?
.Net + 1.60 BBS


A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] fourth in. Blinds and I see flop.

T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB bets and we both fold.
Lost 1 SB


A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in BB. Five to flop.

4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I lead out, call, call, fold, ultra-lag SB (who I’m pretty sure was a heavily intoxicated holdem player) raises, I call, call, call.

Turn is K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB bets, I call, fold, call.

River is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check, bet, HE raises, I call, call.

SB has K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4s full of kings, other player had 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for a backdoor flush.
On the flop the SB could have easily had something like KQ or Q9 while I assumed the other player had a straight draw. I hated the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and called planning to dump if the player behind me raised, but when he called I didn’t know what to think. I didn’t like the river card as it made sense for either the SB or other guy to have a set of 4s, even SB could have had QQ the whole time, I don’t know. I’m not to fond of how I played this, any better lines? Against awful players do you still give up on the flop in the face of straight draws and QQ?
Net +8.25 BBs scoop


J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP, six to flop.

5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Bet, I fold.
Lost 1 SB


J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on button, five to flop.

3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Bet, I fold.
Lost 1 sb


6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG + 1, Five see flop.

2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Flop gets checked. Turn is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], I checkfold to a bet.
Lost 1sb


5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in SB, seven see flop.

4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. A bet and raise on flop, four to turn..

Turn is K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I check, bet, call, call, I call.

River 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I check, bet, call, call.
One of the callers has AA89 for the boat, raiser had KK79, I take low
Net +2.60 BBs


4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in SB, seven see flop.

6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I checkfold after a bet and a raise in front of me.
Lost .5 SB


2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] CO + 1, six to flop

8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A bet and four calls.

Turn 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Bet, raise, I call, call.

River T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Bet, raise, I fold.

The raiser had 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], other player had Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Was I correct to call the turn raise with 8.5 BBs in the pot? I doubt the third player will raise, leaving 11.5 BBs going into the turn. I was almost positive my low wouldn’t be quartered as they seemed to be duking out with various straights, I wasn’t sure if I was going to scoop if I boated, TT was a possible holding between them.
Lost 3 BBs


After 300 hands I’m down 8 BB and have mixed feelings about my play. I have some glaring holes as seen in my biggest losses,the last As289 hand, the flopped nut straight hand I butchered and my cowboy aggro hand with top pair and a low draw headsup. I also feel that while in the huge scoop hand with 9s full I could have been drawing dead. For the most part though I’m definitely the tightest at the table, and as I watch the hands I’m not involved with I can guess most of their holdings are, and gauge which players are playing correctly and which I want to get in pots with. I feel confident in my ability to fix my holes and learn but I just don't know if I'm anywhere close to the right direction.

I now basically stick to any A2 combo, as even semi coordinated hands like A345 in LP or As357 in EP seem to be leaking money. The naked A2s don’t have a great chance of scooping, but in these games they seem to be boss. At this point I’m also thinking of no longer calling with hands that I was experimenting with like AsAsXX or hands like single suited AAKJ’s because they just seem to be slowly hemorrhaging chips. Is my sample size way too small to be giving up on these hands just yet?

This is way too long and I apologize again. So finally again if you actually took the time to browse any section of this, I would greatly appreciate any thoughts or criticism on the hands I played, hand selection, overall aggression or tightness level, whatever. Just trying to figure out if I'm on the right track.

Thanks again.

dibbs

[gergery]

I looked thru this quickly and did not see any glaring holes. A couple hands i'd have mucked or called to see a card on the flop but nothing that would generate signficant swings. I don't recall you playing very aggressively tho.

--Greg

[nuclear500]

Call with your AA88 and proceed from the flop. You have one suited Ace and the Ace's themselves are nice and sometimes can win the high by their value alone if someone is playing hard a nut low raise.

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
Call with your AA88 and proceed from the flop. You have one suited Ace and the Ace's themselves are nice and sometimes can win the high by their value alone if someone is playing hard a nut low raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesnt make any sense, the last think you want to do is hang around with only AA.

That is a very weak high hand and will probably be a long term loser in loose games.

[dibbs]

Thank you very much for looking over this rambling HH and for your feedback. I'm looking forward to reading your posts and will likely be putting single specific hands up soon.

Cheers.

dibbs