Adjusting to a slowplayer

jpg7n16 · #1 04-01-2005, 03:25 AM

How should you adjust your playing style when you are up against someone that slowplays every hand they have (so it seems)?? A guy I play with will slowplay his hand virtually every time, and I don't know when my hands will actually beat him, so I don't know when to stop betting, or when to fold when he does.

What aspect of my game should I change when I'm up against him?

Onaflag · #2 04-01-2005, 04:05 AM

I run into these people at the local card room in town once in a while. I simply remain aware when they're in a pot and make sure I remember in which situations they slowplayed. Does he only do it with a flopped set or is there some other pattern you can detect? Has he ever NOT had the goods when he check-raised? That could be a clue.

On the other hand, SPing has a major tendency to give cheap/free cards to your opponents on a draw. This is a huge mistake (when addicted to it) and will cost him lots of money. If he habitually does it, it will burn him in the end.

If he SPs a monster now and then, that's life. I do, too.

There may be no easy answer to your dilema, but, I tried. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Onaflag...........

jpg7n16 · #3 04-01-2005, 04:15 AM

He won't just SP the monsters... any monster he gets you can be sure that it's slowplayed. (crap I do that myself every once in a while) but with him, I never know if he has TPTK MPGK 2Pair or Monster Set/Quads... I know he has something if he stays in, but I don't know if my marginal/good hands are good enough to keep on going. I'll play right along if I have the nuts (those hands I don't worry about-but act like I do BRU HA HA).

I post the question because at the back of Sklansky's TOP, there is a list of how to adjust to several playing mistakes, but he convieniently left this one out. Obviously it's not good for him to do this consistently because of the possible bets he could have had, but it costs me money on some hands, and confuses the crap out of me on others. Sklansky gives no response to such play.

PokerFink · #4 04-01-2005, 06:25 AM

Preface: This is for no-limit only.

1) Make a lot of small flop bets against this player as probing bets to see if he has anything. Especially since you said he folds if he has nothing.

2) The key to beating this player is when you have a draw, especially the nut draw. Lets say you hold A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The flop comes something like Qs 8s 5h. You make your small probing bet and he calls. If you miss your flush on the turn, just check, as he will likely check behind and give the free card.

If, however, you make your flush on the turn, pot it. If he calls, I'm moving in on the river and hoping he was slowplaying.

The key is to over-bet your monsters and hope he was slowplaying something. You will get his stack eventually doing this.

3) DON'T show your monsters if he folds to the overbet. In fact, if you over-bet a monster and everyone folds, even if Mr. Slowplayer wasn't in the hand, don't show. Ever. Ever. Ever. Don't let him catch on you will overbet a monster.

Bluffoon · #5 04-01-2005, 10:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How should you adjust your playing style when you are up against someone that slowplays every hand they have (so it seems)?? A guy I play with will slowplay his hand virtually every time, and I don't know when my hands will actually beat him, so I don't know when to stop betting, or when to fold when he does.

What aspect of my game should I change when I'm up against him?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pay particular attention to position with this player. Try to get on his right so you can act after him most times you are in a hand together. He is giving away free cards. Take them when when it is to your advantage. Cut down on your semi-bluffs and bluffs when he is in the hand, value bet like crazy and be patient and satsfied that he is not extracting the maximum he could from you but you are from him.

Brainwalter · #6 04-01-2005, 11:25 AM

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value bet like crazy

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I'm not sure that's a good idea. Maybe I'm missing your point, but "value bet like crazy" I take to mean value betting hands like middle pair no kicker, a la SSHE where the players will call with anything. I think against a guy like the OP describes this will be ill-advised. You'll walk into a lot of his check-raises by betting marginal hands. The key here IMO is to take free cards and free showdowns when your hand is marginal or bad.

Bluffoon · #7 04-01-2005, 11:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
value bet like crazy

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that's a good idea. Maybe I'm missing your point, but "value bet like crazy" I take to mean value betting hands like middle pair no kicker, a la SSHE where the players will call with anything. I think against a guy like the OP describes this will be ill-advised. You'll walk into a lot of his check-raises by betting marginal hands. The key here IMO is to take free cards and free showdowns when your hand is marginal or bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point I wasn't clear at all.

Value bet your GOOD hands. To me value betting means betting what you believe is the best hand. If there is considerable doubt as to whether you have the best hand and you bet, I consider this more of a semi-bluff. You would like your opponent to fold but if he doesn't you are hoping to improve. When I am value betting I want calls because I think my hand is going to hold up as-is.

With draws AND marginal hands take the free card and see how the hand develops. Don't do any slowplaying and cut down on check raising or other tricky plays. Just keep value betting.

djoyce003 · #8 04-01-2005, 11:53 AM

I'm getting the sneaking suspicion that he is not slowplaying but is rather a calling station. Are you saying that he never raises with anything, or he never raises with top pair till the river, or what. I'm a little confused here, but i've got the feeling that he calls down with any piece of the board. That is not slowplaying, that is being a calling station. Yes sometimes they get hands too, but they'll usually raise them on the turn. If that's this guy it's easy. Take your free cards when you are drawing, value bet top pair, and fold if he checkraises you as long as he has always had the goods when he does it....hat is basically how i'd play it. Your slowplayer sounds like a calling station to me though.

JPNet · #9 04-01-2005, 04:21 PM

I have run into several of these types lately. For instance, they will limp in from any position with AA, call the flop, call the turn, then raise on the river.

I think they are slow playing these hands because they think everyone will fold and it is a waste off a good hand AA, KK, QQ, AK. I have seen some players that will do it every time, yet with lesser hands, will raise.

jpg7n16 · #10 04-01-2005, 05:40 PM

Definitely not a calling station. He has fairly tight PF standards, and will fold a JTs if raised PF and a Kxx comes out on the flop. He doesn't call just to see what people have, but calls with fairly good-good-great hands, and then bets on the river, like JPnet said about people he plays with.

He'll call draws (given small enough bets) and he'll call flopped boats. Only 3-10% of the time will he ever bet on the flop or turn... and that is usually when it is checked around to him. But he does bet or c/r a lot on the river.

It's most frustrating when he's not the only one in the pot w/ me. Like me vs 3-4 (him being one of them). Because I think I should be value betting against the others, but if he calls, I have no idea how good my hand is anymore.

I like the advice about throwing out "feeler bets" and reducing my bluffs/semi-bluffs against him. That's probably the best advice for me so far. I tend to semi-bluff against the others at the table to entice them to call my monster hands. But I think that's why I'm losing money to this guy.

Any more advice like this out there?