Tired of Getting Pushed Around

[Shillx]

Yeah I was unclear. Let me try and make it more understandable.

You raise preflop, get called by the BB and are check/raised on the flop. You just call and see a turn and he bets out. It is on you.

- 20% of your turn raises/river bets should be with nothing. 80% should be legit hands.

If you decide to not follow up on the river, you would only raise with nothing ~14% of the time. If you raise with more, people can exploit you by calling and then check/folding the river (since you would never bluff on the end).

- If you just call the turn, you would raise the river everytime you hit something. To balance it, 10% of your river raises would be with nothing. So for a 10 out draw, you would assign one card in the deck to be a "bluffing out". While this technique isn't perfect for LHE, it probably causes more headaches for the other guy as long as you pick a reasonable card. Don't pick something like an offsuit deuce because there is no way that it helped your hand and there is no way that you would have slowplayed something like AA this long.

[jaxUp]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[WalkAmongUs]

TOP explains this game theory bluffing frequency the best I've ever seen it explained.

My game isn't advanced enough to really use this properly yet. I probably won't be ready to really dig into it until I hit like 10/20 or something. If that ever happens...

But the concepts are very interesting.

These are great examples and add to an already very nice thread. Thanks, Aaron!

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
At .5/1 Party tables I think it is very read dependent on the person you are heads up with. There are several people who simply won't fold if they have a peice of a flop heads up. Not when there are over cards on the board, not when they've been c/r'd and re-raised and bet into on every street. Yes, you want to play those people. A lot. But you also need to show down a hand with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my mind, these are automatic check-raise situations unless I have a read to suggest that a different play is better. Flop texture is a very important consideration. The odds are against them having a pair, and therefore in favor of me having the best hand. I don't care if they're calling down because most of the time they're calling down with ace-high and I win money. It's not about driving them out of the pot (though I don't mind if they go), but extracting value when I figure to have the best hand most of the time. I'm perfectly willing to show down my hand against them.

[MikeTexas]

I dont see what the big deal is. Both your hands are relaitvely weak and the pot is not very big.

I discovered that one of my biggest leaks was giving too much action in small pots with marginal hands such as these. I would get caught up in the thought that the other guy was "making a move" on me because he put me on unimproved overs. Then I would end up giving too much action with marginal hands. Typically, the guy would have some sort of a hand, (middle/bottom pair or a small pocket pair) and I would throw away too much money with these weak hands.

In a situation such as this where rag flops, you dont make a pair and youre draws are very weak its best most of the time just to surrender the pot. That might sound like a weak tight strategy to some, but giviing too much action in small pots with weak hands like this is something I consider a major leak. Youre opponent will have a legitmate hand probably about 1/3 of the time and hell be semi bluffing with a stronger draw then yours about 1/3 of the time which means hell either have a hand that is favored to win or draw out on you 2/3 of the time.....not a good situation for Hero.

Give up the pot...its small. Youll have the best of it in the long run....youve got position on Villian and hes probably calling with hands that are much weaker then yours. Dont let youre ego provoke you into giving too much action in small pots with hands that probably wont show a profit.

And BTW, if you are going to play weak hands like that after the turn you should raise the turn as soon as you pick up the gutshot if you believe your opponent is bluffing or "taking shots at you". This strategy is better then checking and calling on the turn and river because a) you may induce your opponent to fodl on the turn if he is bluffing b) you can check the river after he checks to you assuming he calls your turn raise c) you can bet the river if you improve or even if you dont and might be able to induce him to fold. Either way, raising the turn is correct if youre going to give any action at all.

-Mike