What Now? (advice post, little strategy)

[Hellmouth]

Ok, well about a month or two ago I moved up to 1/2. I was getting my butt handed to me and was loosing at whopping rate of -10BB/100 over the first 1-2K hands. The thing is I know that I was losing not just hitting bad varience. I was really playing badly.

So I head over and open up a party account. I play 45 days worth of 1/2 on the beginners tables and am crushing it. After 11K hands I have moved my win rate to 5.6BB/100 (including the intial downswing). Well to make a long story short. No more beginnners = losing again.

Ive hit about a 100BB downswing again over 1K hands. I know the problem. Smaller pots and less people willing to go the distance with me means I'm losing more than Im winning. I'm not playing optimal poker. I'm also not sure what is going on since I thought I was playign SSHE style poker. Ive read it like 4 times and Im on my way through it again now to try and plug leaks. I think that I am smart enough and well enough in control to beat 1/2. I am not on tilt. I closed down two windows and am now playing two tables rathar than 4. I've noticed that the players at 1/2 are actually thinking. I get checkraised with the worst of it a lot more. It seems that my aggression is costing me money now (although I think that this should not be the case) so I must be miss applying where I am agressive.

Here is my question
Should I move down again or suck it up at one table until I figure things out?

I can easily beat .5/1. I beat it for like 8BB/100 over 10K hands. I dont feel like if I move back down that I will be able to work on my game in a way that helps me to beat 1/2. I also dont like seeing myself possibly pissing away a 2K bankroll that I built at micros, just trying to beat 1/2 until I figure it out.

I know that 1/2 is beatable. I know that I might be experiencing varience/coincidence due to small sample sizes. The problem is that I dont feel like I am playing optimal poker. If I did I would be much less concerned with at 100BB downswing.

Any advice?
Greg

[bottomset]

take a break

[Jaran]

Obviously you suck at poker and should just transfer me your entire br. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously, it's possible you're running bad. It's possible you have some major leaks in your game. It's possible that you just ran real good at .5/1 and still have some lessons to learn there. If we still had the microposter, I would suggest applying for the position. You still might send a request to either of our esteemed moderators, asking if you could do a microposter type post. Without seeing any hands, it is just too hard to say what you need to do.

-Jaran

[deception5]

The best way to get help is by posting the hands where you think you are playing badly. If you aren't sure, pick a couple of "standard" ones to post every day.

Don't bother with hands where you lost a huge pot where you were a massive favorite but lost to a 2 outer on the river. Instead pick some where you were behind all along or where you weren't sure whether to raise or call. Post some overcard/overpair hands and some paired board / scary 3-flush 3-straight type boards. Look for the hands where you won a lot or lost a lot as often you put in a lot of bets on those hands and had to make a lot of decisions.

[tiltaholic]

so let me get this straight.

you beat .5/1 over 10k hands for 8bb/100

then you moved up to 1/2.

then you had a "losing period" of somewhere between 100-200bb (-10bb/100 over 1-2k hands). which could be a learning time, or running poorly, or playing poorly, or whatever.

then you kept playing at 1/2 and overall at 1/2 you had won 5.6bb/100 over 11k hands.

now you've lost 100bb again over 1k hands? bringing your 1/2 winrate to 4.3bb/100 over 12k hands.

deep down in your gut, do you believe people when they say that 3-4bb/100 is a sustainable microlimit winrate for a very good player?

edit: and if you are a very good player whose actual winrate is 3bb/100 for example...that means that after 12k hands you "should" have won 360bb, whereas you have won something like over 500bb already - so in theory you can look forward to regressing at least another 140bb over time.

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
so let me get this straight.

you beat .5/1 over 10k hands for 8bb/100

then you moved up to 1/2.

then you had a "losing period" of somewhere between 100-200bb (-10bb/100 over 1-2k hands). which could be a learning time, or running poorly, or playing poorly, or whatever.

then you kept playing at 1/2 and overall at 1/2 you had won 5.6bb/100 over 11k hands.

now you've lost 100bb again over 1k hands? bringing your 1/2 winrate to 4.3bb/100 over 12k hands.

deep down in your gut, do you believe people when they say that 3-4bb/100 is a sustainable microlimit winrate for a very good player?

edit: and if you are a very good player whose actual winrate is 3bb/100 for example...that means that after 12k hands you "should" have won 360bb, whereas you have won something like over 500bb already - so in theory you can look forward to regressing at least another 140bb over time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but the point is that the winning periods all happened where the quality of play was lower. the two losing periods have been the only real sample of standard 1/2 players. The whole middle portion of 1/2 was playing beginners tables where the overall level of play was at least as bad, if not worse, than what I experienced at .5/1.

I will start posting more "standard" hands. That is a good idea. I guess the answer is also that I should move down to 1 table so that I can analyze each play more carefully while I look for leaks.
Ill try to post some hands in this thread tomorrow and illustrate my point better.

Greg

interesting.... you seem humble (almost overly so) and can accept your flaws

i would say first, there is possibly a good chance you are intimidated by the players at 1/2 and as such arent value betting/raising to the extent that you should. the vast majority of 1/2 players arent that good.

the best way to get over this is through experience, try playing 1 table at a time at 1/2 and really think about what your doing. after 10k hands or so you should develop the natural confidence you held at .5/1

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
interesting.... you seem humble (almost overly so) and can accept your flaws

i would say first, there is possibly a good chance you are intimidated by the players at 1/2 and as such arent value betting/raising to the extent that you should. the vast majority of 1/2 players arent that good.

the best way to get over this is through experience, try playing 1 table at a time at 1/2 and really think about what your doing. after 10k hands or so you should develop the natural confidence you held at .5/1

[/ QUOTE ]

This might be right. My aggression factor has dropped a lot since moving to 1/2. I guess I could be slipping into weak-tight mode. The swing seems a lot bigger when I lose a big hand. And Im not getting as many big hands to compensate.

Greg

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so let me get this straight.

you beat .5/1 over 10k hands for 8bb/100

then you moved up to 1/2.

then you had a "losing period" of somewhere between 100-200bb (-10bb/100 over 1-2k hands). which could be a learning time, or running poorly, or playing poorly, or whatever.

then you kept playing at 1/2 and overall at 1/2 you had won 5.6bb/100 over 11k hands.

now you've lost 100bb again over 1k hands? bringing your 1/2 winrate to 4.3bb/100 over 12k hands.

deep down in your gut, do you believe people when they say that 3-4bb/100 is a sustainable microlimit winrate for a very good player?

edit: and if you are a very good player whose actual winrate is 3bb/100 for example...that means that after 12k hands you "should" have won 360bb, whereas you have won something like over 500bb already - so in theory you can look forward to regressing at least another 140bb over time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but the point is that the winning periods all happened where the quality of play was lower. the two losing periods have been the only real sample of standard 1/2 players. The whole middle portion of 1/2 was playing beginners tables where the overall level of play was at least as bad, if not worse, than what I experienced at .5/1.

I will start posting more "standard" hands. That is a good idea. I guess the answer is also that I should move down to 1 table so that I can analyze each play more carefully while I look for leaks.
Ill try to post some hands in this thread tomorrow and illustrate my point better.

Greg

[/ QUOTE ]

i hear what you are saying in principle...but i think it is more likely that "the change in quality of opposition" is in your head and it's causing you to either play differently or read into things more. (and after all you are talking about 2k hands)

on the other hand...you are not an idiot so you can presumably recognize better play for what it is...so if you are losing vs better opposition then by all means, review your play here in public and maybe we'll find something!

[Hellmouth]

Ok it makes sense to move to one table 1/2. Things just move so slow one-tabling, I guess I needed a push in the right direction. Playing at .5/1 just wont help in the long run. (unless my BR dwindles to nothing)

Posting more should help also. I just like to look at other peoples play rather than my own. It feels less selfish.

time to suck it up.
Greg