Thoughts on defending against free card play

PSW · #1 10-25-2005, 12:45 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

MP1 just sat down and I have nothing on him. His cold calling my raise isn't a good way to make an impression though.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 5 folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

My main question about this hand is does this look like a FCP or does he think he is betting for value? Seeing as the answer may be imposible to know, how do you handle the turn?

Turn: (4.66 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 ...

Bet out or CR? Man, against one player, I just had to bet. Opinions?

psw

edited to get better answers

TheHammer24 · #2 10-25-2005, 12:55 PM

Stop N Go is fine IMO. NH

krimson · #3 10-25-2005, 12:56 PM

I don't think he's trying for a free card very often, and you should be able to c/r him successfully. However, I think we might be able to pull off a donk/3-bet here. If he's a bit passive his cold-calling hands could include 99-JJ, or AJ if he's a bit loose. Even if it fails it leaves him unsure where he stands and he pretty much has to call down with a J or T.

edit: Also why do you care if he called you a chaser? Nobody in their right mind is folding KQ on this board. Disable chat if something like that bothers you enough to warrant posting it here.

felix83 · #4 10-25-2005, 01:02 PM

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Even if it fails it leaves him unsure where he stands and he pretty much has to call down with a J or T.

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I like this idea a lot. He may put you on AK or AQ or something and think you're trying to scare him off, in which case you might even consider calling his raise on the turn and donk-betting the river to confuse him even more and maybe have him raise a blank river with 2 pair.

PSW · #5 10-25-2005, 01:07 PM

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I don't think he's trying for a free card very often, and you should be able to c/r him successfully. However, I think we might be able to pull off a donk/3-bet here. If he's a bit passive his cold-calling hands could include 99-JJ, or AJ if he's a bit loose. Even if it fails it leaves him unsure where he stands and he pretty much has to call down with a J or T.

edit: Also why do you care if he called you a chaser? Nobody in their right mind is folding KQ on this board. Disable chat if something like that bothers you enough to warrant posting it here.

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I just found it humorous, that's all. I edited it out because I thought it gave away what happened.

I was a little confused by your comment starting with "even if it fails." Did you mean the CR or the bet/3-bet?

Thanks

SeaEagle · #6 10-25-2005, 01:20 PM

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Bet out or CR? Man, against one player, I just had to bet. Opinions?

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It's not likely you're against a free card play, since you already have the best free card hand.

Having said that, I don't think there's a ton of difference between the donk and a c/r. Personally, I think it's good to c/r sometimes in spots like this because people remember being c/red and it slows them down/buys you free cards on subsequent hands. But the donk-bet is the surest way to make sure at least one bet goes in on the turn.

I think you also need to consider 3-betting this flop. You probably have more than 50% equity in this hand so the bet isn't costing you anything, and you gain some fold equity against stuff like AT/KT or an overplayed PP.

W. Deranged · #7 10-25-2005, 02:19 PM

I think you're phrasing this question improperly.

The real question on the turn should not be: is this a free card play? There aren't many hands that would want free cards on that flop, and you are holding one of the primary ones.

The real question is value. What line will get in the most bets with the nuts? If you are sure your opponent will bet the turn and call down a check-raise, check-raise. If you think there's a reasonable chance he'll raise your donk-bet, donk-bet. If he's passive and might check the turn with a decent 1 pair hand and probably won't value bet the river, donking is good to make sure bets go in and sort of confuse your opponent into calling down. It all depends on what you think of your opposition.

krimson · #8 10-25-2005, 02:28 PM

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I just found it humorous, that's all. I edited it out because I thought it gave away what happened.

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Fair enough, it just appeared that you were doubting yourself because of his comment.

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I was a little confused by your comment starting with "even if it fails." Did you mean the CR or the bet/3-bet?

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I mean the benefit of leading the turn is that if we fail to get a 3-bet he doesn't have much option but to call down what looks like a bluff.