Dark Play - How Far Can You Take It?

[Holm Fries]

I thought this was an interesting hand.

6-12 at CP.

I am UTG+1 at an ultra loose (and relatively passive) table with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG limps, I limp, an MP limps, SB completes, BB raises and we all go to the flop for 2 SBs.

Flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB checks,BB bets, UTG folds, I raise, BB calls after the rest of the table folds and checks the turn dark.

Uh, OK.

Turn is the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I bet, he instaraises and I call. Then he bets the river dark, which confuses the dealer into pump faking the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I thought about "dark" raising (can I even do that?), but decided to wait until the cloud of confusing is lifted and the river is delivered to its rightful spot on the table.

So I got to thinking, what are the rules around dark play? If I thought I could get him to three bet an inferior hand, could I dark raise? If there are Canterbury players who know the rule, that would be great. I can't imagine that I will ever use this, but it would be good to know.

For those interested, he 3 bet and called a fourth with QQ. Then 4 hands later they called him for the 15-30.

HF

[Woody09]

this is a really good question. I've been wondering about dark checks ect after williams dark checked to josh ariah(sp?) at the wsop final table and won the hand, the dark check really seemed to throw off josh. In other words, I don't have an answer, but it is topic which is extremely intersting and would like to read what some of the more learned 2+2'ers think

[Demana]

The people I know who check in the dark are doing it to gain position, basically forcing you into acting first.

The better players will use it to mess with your mind.

I've not seen a rule against it in any B&M I've been to.

[pdavester]

Well I dont know about CP, but at the mirage where I usually play they let you do as much as you want dark. For instance one night about 6 months ago I was playing 10/20 3 handed very late at night. We had been playing short handed for about 2 hours already so we were compfortable with each other I guess. We get to this hand:

I am dealt AJo on the button

I raise, Sb 3-bets, BB folds, I 4-bet, SB calls.

He then checks the flop dark, so I bet it dark, he then check-raises me dark. I then waited for the flop to act.

The flop comes down: AAJ
I then 3-bet him, he 4-bets, I call.
Turn was a rag
he bets, I raise, he 3-bets, I 4-bet, he 5-bets, I 6-bet, he calls.
River was a rag
he checks, I bet, he calls.

he never showed his hand but said he had AK.

So the mirage will let you do as much action as you want dark because it takes two to continue the action.

[Woody09]

think its a good strategy? any ideas when its best used?

[Holm Fries]

[ QUOTE ]
The people I know who check in the dark are doing it to gain position,

[/ QUOTE ]

This is only half true, right? You are also giving the opportunity to check behind.

[rogue]

I have seen multiple dark actions at Canterbury, and there was no complaint. Usually a dark check or bet after a dark check though. I have never seen anyone raise in the dark.

That sounds like a typical Canterbury 15/30 player splashing around in the yellow chip games [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[WDC]

I ahve seen every betting round capped 4 ways dark at a CP 3-6 game so I don't think they have a rule forbidding it.

[chrisdhal]

I've seen it there too, my table was right next to it one night. The dealer that pushed in from that table said it was like 6 or 7 people who wanted to play 15/30 (or at least higher than 3/6), so they just agreed to always cap. I guess it would have sucked to be a regular 3/6 player who got sent there though.

[DeuceKicker]

Dark checks usually come after you re-raise in late position. They may have AQ and fear a high pocket pair from you, so they check dark to 'disguise' that they don't have a made hand. If they have a hand they want to play against your raise (AA, KK) 99.9999% of the time they wont check dark because it allows you to check behind. I guess they could do the same with a low pocket pair that they raised with, but I'm not sure I've seen that. Usually it's just a gambler being tricky for trickiness' sake.