Organ Transplant Debacle

[Ray Zee]

sure john, but that is what the courts are for to decide whether it was an innocent mistake or not and to determine if damages should be awarded for negligence.

[HDPM]

A lot of times ridiculous tort reform ideas don't lower premiums at all. I don't know the solution to the problem because it is a complex one. But tort reform has not worked. Insurance companies need a certain profit and their recent investment losses have led them to drive up premiums. I also recognize that a lot of docs are paying ridiculous amounts for malpractice coverage. OTOH, I know both the general statistics regarding malpractice cases and anecdotal evidence. Docs win 80% of the cases that go to juries. Those are often good cases because insurance companies don't settle all the cases with clear liability. Many juries really sympathize with docs doing their best and don't hammer them. But in catastrophic cases damages are huge no matter how you cut it. Sure there are stupid cases and I know people can find anecdotal evidence of ridiculous verdicts. Overall though, the tort system is not an out of control monster. And more often than we want to admit, the level of care is much lower than you can imagine. Not just mistakes which happen, but major blunders that would be easy to prevent. There is no magic solution though. Any way you cut it, the problem costs somebody money.

[HDPM]

"the lawyers will take home about half the money involved...a humongous hourly rate"

See, the system works perfectly. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img] I just wish these cases were the money factories in Idaho that the insurance co's say they are. HDPW would let me be a trust fund pro.

[Ray Zee]

scalf, i dont know whether or not they do a good job. but to make sure people that have the power of life and death, you need to hold over them a powerful incentive to not abuse their power.
the current system is working. doctors and such are very careful of what they do and how they act. you hear alot less about the drunk doctor or the doctor cutting off the wrong leg. they now know the penalty for slopy proceedures is too great not to follow the right paths. people are people. and if you give them too long a lease then they get lax. its only human nature.
its simple, if they dont screw up they dont lose the lawsuits. at least thats how it should work. and maybe the law suits should be judged by a panel of experts rather than common people.

[MMMMMM]

There's another factor which is very important and it doesn't receive nearly enough attention.

Many doctors work incredibly long hours, especially doctors in their residency, for whom being on 24-36+ hour shifts is rather common, working over 90 hours a week, etc.--and this must contribute to errors, sometimes grave errors.

Hospitals like it because they get tons of work cheaply from new doctors. But there is a price to be paid somewhere for it and IMO this system needs reform.

[scalf]

[img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] i see a lot of illegal aliens at my rural clinic, and am proud of our care and concern for them...they would not be here if someone wasn't making big time money on them...jmho..gl [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

[Ray Zee]

its sad they work all those hours and that can contribute to mistakes. but they are professionals. and when they accept those hours the mistakes are their fault, and they are totally responsible for their actions. they are not slave labor and have no right to practice medicine when not possesing a clear thinking brain.
and every patient has the right to be told by their doctor and nurse or who ever, that they have workerd 36 hours straight and are in no condition to make sound judgement decisions. not to tell is the same as a criminal act in my mind.
who wouldnt walk or be carried out to another place if told that.

[MMMMMM]

Resident doctors live at the hospital, grab a few hours sleep here and there, and work like dogs. Maybe it isn't straight 36-hr. shifts--maybe I'm exaggerating a bit unintentionaly or have it slightly wrong--but 90-100 hour workweeks take place and they grab a little sleep when they can, sometimes swinging long straight hours too. Resident doctors pay a heavy price this way to break into the profession and hospitals typically require this of their new residents. And residency is pretty much a standard part of a young doctor's transition from education to practice. About ten years ago I read an article about it--and forgot most of it by now--asked my dad recently if it still goes on as a general rule and he said yes it does. My view is that it is really wrong and that something ought to be done to force hospitals to cease requiring such long hours of their doctors in residency.

[Ray Zee]

mmmmmm, how about one of my bad analogies--


a truck driver to keep his job has to take bennies and stay awake long hours. so he does and kills someone on the road because he couldnt see straight.

so is it his fault. its an honest mistake but doesnt he become totally responsible for his actions. shouldnt he have to pay for his damage. should he go to jail.

this sounds alot like what doctors should have to fear that are willing to take on a job while impaired.

[MMMMMM]

OK, but what if all the big trucking companies require that during the first two years of employment for new drivers, these are the working conditions: long long hours on the job, sleep in your truck kind of thing. My understanding is that's pretty much analogous to what hospitals require of doctors in residency.

Also, just to clarify on the larger picture, I'm not saying there shouldn't be lawsuits or responsibility regarding true negligence. And I don't know all the reasons why malpractice premiums are so out-of-sight now--the whole picture seems very problematic.