overplayed TPTK (AK)? - 50NL 6max

starvs · #1 12-04-2005, 07:34 PM

UTG is 38/12 over 50 hands or so, no real read besides that, but he hasn't gotten out of line.

I probably should have re raised pre-flop. I don't like to re-raise AK out of position all the time, but since this was a min raise, it probably would have been a good idea, but that really isn't the crux of the hand. Should I have 3-bet the flop, lead the turn, or check raised the turn as I did? I feel like sometimes I lay down TPTK to much, and some times I just go nuts with it, and each time is usually a reaction to what I did last hand with TPTK, if it didn't work.

Empire Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($57.35)
Button ($48.60)
SB ($7.60)
Hero ($58.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG raises to $1, 1 fold, SB (poster) calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, UTG raises to $5, SB folds, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($13) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $9, Hero calls $52.65 (All-In), UTG calls $42.35 (All-In).

River: ($117) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $117

Thanks for any help

beavens · #2 12-04-2005, 07:37 PM

i wouldve repopped it pf.

i'd also 3bet the flop thinking im probably up against KQ or KJ.

i'm assuming that the SB went AI on the turn - which spells trouble. i'd fold to the SB pushing =\

.edit - i wouldve also lead the turn for the pot.

rachelwxm · #3 12-04-2005, 07:41 PM

I would reraise with AK here and not sure even then would I go broke. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] What exactly are you trying to achieve by turn check raise? If it's a bluff trying to let him fold 2pair+, I don't think that works well at this level.

As played, I would cc down after flop. If he bets big, I'd fold unless I have some sort of read.

starvs · #4 12-04-2005, 08:15 PM

I guess I was mostly worried about a spade on the river, but maybe that is an irrational fear because of the raise on the flop, the Ks out there eliminating alot of flush draw possible hands.

Thanks for all the input

AcesUp2121 · #5 12-04-2005, 08:49 PM

The checkraise all in on the turn is bad. Everything you have beat folds. Everything you are behind to is just taking your money.

pokernose · #6 12-04-2005, 09:12 PM

I like the call pre-flop instead of a re-raise. You are out of position so you don't want to lose too much money.

Since you are out of position, you are at an extreme disadvantage after the flop. I like the fact that you came out betting, but that raise should tell you something. Your opponent is not scared of the king on the board. It is possible you have the best hand here, but it is going to be tough to find out. I think you need to do one of two things on the flop. Option 1 is to fold. This is a safe option. The pot is still relatively small, so you don't lose much by doing it.

Option 2 would be to come back over the top. I want to elimiate my positional disadvantage as quickly as possible, so if I were to make this play I would come back over the top big. I would probably make it about 20 to go. If my opponent were to re-raise, I can still get away from my hand. If my opponent just calls, I can go all in on the turn.

Overall, I think folding on the flop is the best play. All you have is TPTK and I suspect it isn't good. Your opponents minimum raise pre-flop and re-raise on that flop screams pocket aces or kings to me. There is no good reason to go broke with top pair in this pot.

beavens · #7 12-04-2005, 09:18 PM

meh, i don't think the minraise is indicative of AA or KK.. you'll generally see small PPs, weak broadways or SCs minraising pf.. now if he minraised and then 3bet pf to a raise then i'd be worried about the premium PPs

pokernose · #8 12-04-2005, 09:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
meh, i don't think the minraise is indicative of AA or KK.. you'll generally see small PPs, weak broadways or SCs minraising pf.. now if he minraised and then 3bet pf to a raise then i'd be worried about the premium PPs

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the pf min-raise alone doesn't always indicate AA or KK. It's the re-raise on the flop in combination with the pre-flop min-raise that concerns me. It seems that this combination most commonly occurs with the premium pairs.

beavens · #9 12-04-2005, 09:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
meh, i don't think the minraise is indicative of AA or KK.. you'll generally see small PPs, weak broadways or SCs minraising pf.. now if he minraised and then 3bet pf to a raise then i'd be worried about the premium PPs

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the pf min-raise alone doesn't always indicate AA or KK. It's the re-raise on the flop in combination with the pre-flop min-raise that concerns me. It seems that this combination most commonly occurs with the premium pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

i see what youre saying here, but it just seems like a weaker Kx to me.

starvs · #10 12-05-2005, 08:11 AM

So if the hand range has been narrowed down to KJ-AK,KK+, plus some weird draw hands, what is the best line? Three bet the flop and fold to a push? And If called on my three bet, push the turn? This seems reasonable because most hands im beating would push the flop I would imagine, after a three bet.

But that may just be risking to much when I'm really only ahead of a few hands. It feels really weak to just fold TPTK to a min raise and a small raise on the flop. Maybe that is what needs to be done though?

-starvs