This board makes me laugh (a reality check)

[lastchance]

Agreed.

Not saying that there shouldn't be a war on terror, but the US is not going to cave into Al-Qaida's demands, and we have tech + superior firepower + more forces = teh win.

[Cyrus]

"Most of you are completely out of touch with reality."

Them's fighting words, fit for an infantryman. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

"Wiretap/civil liberties/Patriot Act, etc. I think it’s questionable, but I see why the President ordered it. It would be virtually impossible to go to the court 1000s of times a day."

Well, that is what is actually happening right now! (And your number is wrong. It is way more than 1000s of times a day!) This is how criminals are getting caught daily. The system seems to be in relatively good shape, unless you choose to believe the cop show writers.

But one should make a note of the easiness with which you are willing to sacrifice a lot of your basic freedoms, because "the president must know what he's doing"...

A heapload of people, infantrymen and others, have died for Habeas Corpus. It is a sign of the times that people are willing to part with it so blithely.

"The NSA isn’t listening to you talk to your wife about picking up a loaf of bread on the way home."

But they are! The NSA are also listen in on you talk to your lover - or your boss - or whomever. They are supposed to listen to most everything and then filter out the noise and stick to the juice. And with PATRIOT, it only gets worse. So if you think that there is not enormous room for abuse here, you are mistaken.

And, by the way: The NSA kind of technology is mostly useless against the low-tech threat that is Qaeda and its branches. Bear that in mind.

"Over 80% of people like me agree that he’s doing a pretty good job based on the military vote in the last election."

If you want only professional soldiers to have the right to vote, just say so. In the meantime, this kind of percentage is as meaningful as the voting proclivities of Blonde American Women.

"Do you think 80% of the people like me are just too stupid to know better?"

You are not stupid. (I mean, I don't know you!) And it does not mean that you are not informed, either. It's just that the American military, more than any other sector of society, has been placed by the administration's actions and policies in a must-win/must-prevail situation. It would be unthinkable for the American military personnel to be "voting" against its own objectives!

"Irag, Afghanistan ... Been there (both places), things are going great, thank you very much."

Uh, from what kind of perspective, soldier?

It's not just that there are casualties (the dead thank you very much). The whole war is WRONG. Even if no soldiers were getting killed (as they are, daily), you think this alone would make the war in Iraq a just war? If America invades another country, e.g. Grenada, without any casualties, this makes it a just war? Sorry, but no.

"When you (we) sit down and really think about what we are doing and why, its pretty clear we are making a huge difference and it matters a lot."

I agree about the "difference" - but I think it is going in the wrong direction! The War Against Terror has not been promoted one iota by the effort in Iraq. On the contrary, and as prominent hawks in America keep saying, the war in Iraq is both distracting from and weakening the War Against Terror.

"Western Europe will be right after us, those poor idiots are really in a state of denial."

Even if the threat from muslim fundamentalists is as great as you insinuate, America is going the wrong way about it. It's comforting to believe that the whole world except the United States (sorry, I forget, the United States plus Albania, Macedonia, El Salvador... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]) are right and the others are in denial..

Denial is the right word, alright!

"This is a war for National Survival, all the bs “background noise” is political fluff on both sides."

If this were truly about America's survival, nukes would have been out already. They have not and it is not. Ease up. Your Commander-in-Chief has not f*cked it all up THAT badly.

Not yet anyway.

"You really don’t know anything more than what you read or hear about second hand instead of seeing or touching or feeling it first hand, so keep that in mind when you state your opinion."

No-nonsense Americans, people who are siding with the military first and looking at the question second, experts such as Melvin Laird, ex-Sec of Defense during Vietnam's most ferocious phase, or Zbigniew Brzezinky, ex-NSC chief and extreme anti-Soviet, or Henry Kissinger, a known war criminal, are not exactly saying kind things about the war that Bush is conduting! From one perspective or others, it is being suggested, with very delicate words, that the war is a huge SNAFU. And these are folks who are genuinely interested in America advanncing its interests in the world and strengthening its security. These guys are all enthusiastic imperialists!

You choose to discount such input, and others' like them, that's your prerogative. I'd say you're perhaps too close to the action to see the big picture but then perhaps you'd flame me. (Perhaps literally. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed.

Not saying that there shouldn't be a war on terror, but the US is not going to cave into Al-Qaida's demands, and we have tech + superior firepower + more forces = teh win.

[/ QUOTE ]

Al-Qaida + control of a large supply of oil + nuclear weapons + will to use them == utter chaos and mayhem in the U.S.

[MMMMMM]

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[ QUOTE ]
"The NSA isn’t listening to you talk to your wife about picking up a loaf of bread on the way home."

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But they are! The NSA are also listen in on you talk to your lover - or your boss - or whomever. They are supposed to listen to most everything and then filter out the noise and stick to the juice. And with PATRIOT, it only gets worse. So if you think that there is not enormous room for abuse here, you are mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cyrus, I'm just now starting to read about these eavesdroppings, but weren't the electronic eavesdroppings by the NSA on FOREIGN communications, including foreign communications on U.S. soil? Example: Call originates from foreign destination to U.S. (or vice versa) and may get listened to by NSA. You call to order a local pizza = call does not get listened to by NSA. Plus, there may be list of specific names of suspected terrorists/associates which may get listened to.

As regards some of your other points, the situation in Iraq has improved DRAMATICALLY of late, and may well continue to get better. Time to pout away the negative for a while and open your eyes to the positive.

[BluffTHIS!]

MMMMMM, I just want to comment that I think this last response of yours is just right in length. By that I mean nothing denigrating about the actual substance or length of some of your other responses, but just that by keeping them shorter, when Cyrus feels compelled to parse them line by line and word by word and rebut to each minute part, then his overall reply post won't have to be 3 monitor screens high.

[vulturesrow]

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And, by the way: The NSA kind of technology is mostly useless against the low-tech threat that is Qaeda and its branches. Bear that in mind.


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This is incredibly wrong. And that is not an exaggeration in the least.

[Cyrus]

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And, by the way: The NSA kind of technology is mostly useless against the low-tech threat that is Qaeda and its branches.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is incredibly wrong. And that is not an exaggeration in the least.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand by my claim - "mostly" an' all.

Those guys are fanatics, criminals, etc, but they are not stupider than the drug dealers in The Wire, Season 1.

[vulturesrow]

Al-Qaeda and their ilk make heavy use of satellite communications, cellular technology, and the Internet. How is the NSA 'mostly useless' against this?

[Cyrus]

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By keeping [your responses] shorter, when Cyrus feels compelled to parse them line by line and word by word and rebut to each minute part, then his overall reply post won't have to be 3 monitor screens high.

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1. The sentence above looks like a cut-up. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

2. Some posts make a lot of worthwhile points, e.g. PartyRocks' OP. Other posts are short on quantity but long on quality. Both kinds deserve a substantial response, which could also be a lengthy one. Nevertheless, I try to make 'em short 'n sweet. And they mostly are.

Take care.

[sternroolz]

With Iran and North Korea developing nuclear weapons? With Soviet nukes still unaccounted for? I can only assume you are joking.

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I don't buy that we are struggling against a terrorist threat that could any way threaten our nation's survival. That's beyond hyperbole.

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