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Old 12-28-2005, 04:49 AM
Woolygimp Woolygimp is offline
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Default Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

Me and a friend are moving into an upscale apartment in a few weeks. We both make a living 8-12 tabling 30/50 SnG's. We previously were playing $400-$1000 NL tables, but moved back to SnG's because of the ease of play and relatively low difficulty. Our third roommate wants to quit his job, and do what we are doing because we are the ones raking in the $$$. He views himself as somewhat intelligent (says he got a 32 on his ACT), but can't comment on his learning ability.

Me and my second friend (Eihli) are somewhat at odds on how to teach our third roomate how to play. I do know that he knows absolutely NOTHING about hold'em.

Our goal: Eventually make him a 7% or more ROI winner on the 30's.

My teaching regiment:

BEFOREanything...
Make him read Ed Millers Beginner's Hold'em Book.
Make him read Hold'em for advanced players by Sklansky.
Make him read Harrington on Hold'em Volume I.
Make him read Harrington on Hold'em Volume II.

Then make him watch us play SnG's while we explain our plays.
Then we watch him play SnG's while we correct his play and explain why.

Then make him reread: Sklansky's Poker for Advanced Players, Harrington on Hold'em Volume I and II.

This process should take 1-2 weeks depending on how fast HE wants to learn.

Eihli's learning regiment is:

Start out letting him watch us play, while at the same time making him read the same books while he's at his job (finishing out the week).

Watch and correct his play while hes finishing the last of the books.

His argument is that the books will mean nothing to him unless he gains experience by playing poker and understanding the concepts in action.



If you had a friend who wanted to learn SnG's which method would you use to teach them, and if you don't like the ones above which way would you go with?
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Old 12-28-2005, 04:54 AM
bones bones is offline
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Default Re: Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

It's almost pointless to have him read HPFAP when hes learning to play NL sngs. Theory of poker is much more useful and relevant to what he'll be playing. Include Tournament Poker for adv. players later on, after he's learned the basics of hold em.

Honestly, I think having him read GSIH by miller and working through it with him will be sufficient. He can get experience by watching your HHs in the replayer, either with opps cards off or on and and seeing how the decision making process works.
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Old 12-28-2005, 04:59 AM
Woolygimp Woolygimp is offline
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Default Re: Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

Well he finished reading GSIH by miller, and I let him view a few of my hands in a 1/2 live bar game the other night to see what he learned. I asked him what to do in EP with my Qd2c and he said ... "hmm maybe call." I then asked, "So why would you call with this?" He then replied, "I don't know maybe for a straight? Q K A 2 3."

So i think you guys are underestimating just how little he knows about poker. He needs to learn the %'s of flopping pairs, two pairs, sets, draws, hitting draws, etc. The only book that really teaches that [censored] is Hold'em poker for advanced players.
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:00 AM
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Default Re: Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

I wouldn't make hime read any of that stuff(at least in the beginning) $11 sng's are formulaic sp?. Teach him a basic strategy, get him to buy SNGPT, and then set him loose.
Tell him to analyze his bubble play with SNGPT.
And then if he's really interested in the game, try not to get peaved with his constant onslaught of questions.
And once he's winning, reading the books will cease to be work to him.

And, I think quitting your job,THEN learning to play sng's is a bad strategy.
Shooby.
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:02 AM
bones bones is offline
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Default Re: Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

Hold em poker by sklansky has all of that, IIRC. HPFAP is wayyyy too advanced for him and the lines suggested aren't even close to applicable. You can find all of those figures online anyway.
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Old 12-28-2005, 06:02 AM
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Default Re: Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

Hey Wooly...
I also am planning on moving into an appartment this summer while supporting myself playing STT. Just wondering what I should be making per hour to do so. How much (if u don't mind me asking) do u make an hour playing STT? I read that you 8 table 30/50s, but which limit do you do more often. What is your ROI and ITM percentages. Finally (sorry about all these Qs) how many hours a week do you play?
Thanks a lot,
kgpoker
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Old 12-28-2005, 06:16 AM
FlyWf FlyWf is offline
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Default Re: Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

There is no way someone who has as little understanding of poker as you say he does could possibly, possibly get anything out of HOH, much less HEFAP which is about an entirely different game. Less reading, more playing, more coaching. Your friend has a better plan than you, but the an even better plan is to start him off watching you guys, then coach him in some playmoney games, then coach him in some $1s or $3s or whatever the lowest level that people try to win in, then finally giving him some books. There is no way that someone who thinks Q2 can make a straight will be able to understand HEFAP, much less apply the appropriate limit cash game strategies to no limit tourney play.
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Old 12-28-2005, 07:08 AM
Woolygimp Woolygimp is offline
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Default Re: Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Wooly...
I also am planning on moving into an appartment this summer while supporting myself playing STT. Just wondering what I should be making per hour to do so. How much (if u don't mind me asking) do u make an hour playing STT? I read that you 8 table 30/50s, but which limit do you do more often. What is your ROI and ITM percentages. Finally (sorry about all these Qs) how many hours a week do you play?
Thanks a lot,
kgpoker

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm at 19% ROI on the 33's since I've started playing again, but my sample size is small (several hundred SnG's) so I'm probaly experiencing the upside to variance.
So i probaly make $5.25 per SnG at the 30's and play 10 an hour on average so about $50 an hour approx. I prefer the 30's to the 50's (easier, faster, and not much less money).

I made much more playing NL cash, about 7PTBB/100 (14 big blinds/100)@ 200/400 NL so, but it required alot more thought. SnG's are much easier to MT, I could only play 4-6 NL tables at a time even though the $/hour was much higher.

[ QUOTE ]
What is his screen name? In fact, what are your screen names? I'd consider moving down to the 50s to play people like you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the idiotic comment. Even if I was a marginal player you would take a hit to your ROI seeking out and playing "marginal" players, when you could make much more seeking out "lesser than marginal players".
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Old 12-28-2005, 07:10 AM
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Default Re: Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way someone who has as little understanding of poker as you say he does could possibly, possibly get anything out of HOH, much less HEFAP which is about an entirely different game. Less reading, more playing, more coaching. Your friend has a better plan than you, but the an even better plan is to start him off watching you guys, then coach him in some playmoney games, then coach him in some $1s or $3s or whatever the lowest level that people try to win in, then finally giving him some books. There is no way that someone who thinks Q2 can make a straight will be able to understand HEFAP, much less apply the appropriate limit cash game strategies to no limit tourney play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. ^^^
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2005, 07:16 AM
Woolygimp Woolygimp is offline
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Default Re: Teaching a friend Hold\'em 101 & Basic SnG Strategy from scratch.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no way someone who has as little understanding of poker as you say he does could possibly, possibly get anything out of HOH, much less HEFAP which is about an entirely different game. Less reading, more playing, more coaching. Your friend has a better plan than you, but the an even better plan is to start him off watching you guys, then coach him in some playmoney games, then coach him in some $1s or $3s or whatever the lowest level that people try to win in, then finally giving him some books. There is no way that someone who thinks Q2 can make a straight will be able to understand HEFAP, much less apply the appropriate limit cash game strategies to no limit tourney play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. ^^^

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I wanted him to read HEFAP is because i want to build a foundation for him. I want to teach him to think for himself and understand the concepts behind Holdem. HEFAP should be one of the latter books he reads, but he needs to understand the concepts within it. I am a NL player (played alot of NL games with a very high PTBB/100 and I find HEFAP one of the best books out there (even for NL play).
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