Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > PL/NL Texas Hold'em > Small Stakes Pot-, No-Limit Hold'em

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-20-2005, 04:16 AM
george w of poker george w  of poker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 265
Default overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

villain was only there for a couple of orbits. he was loose but hadn't done anything remarkable. he insta-called the flop bet and insta-checked the turn which made me think he didn't have the 8.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Hero ($405.55)</font>
SB ($64.93)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($216)</font>
UTG ($40)
MP ($147.10)
CO ($197)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $2, CO calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $11</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $9, MP folds, CO folds.

Flop: ($27) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $20</font>, BB calls $20.

Turn: ($67) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($67) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB calls $185 (All-In), Hero...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-20-2005, 08:15 AM
vanHelsing vanHelsing is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3
Default Re: overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

[ QUOTE ]
insta-checked the turn which made me think he didn't have the 8.


[/ QUOTE ]
people often insta-check when they make a monster. So I wouldn't rely on this read alone.
While I made calls like this at NL200 level, I think they were overall -ev. More than 80% this means nuts.
Of course when you have a good read, go with it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-20-2005, 10:42 AM
taran taran is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: he he
Posts: 24
Default Re: overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

bet turn.
You did play it as a missed AK tho, with this overbet I see full house or 79s. no read I fold
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-20-2005, 11:39 AM
JihadOnTheRiver JihadOnTheRiver is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chillin with Borat. I LIKE!
Posts: 220
Default Re: overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

If you bet the turn it makes it like 10x easier. But w/o the turn bet I fold.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:10 PM
xcrack999 xcrack999 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: California
Posts: 98
Default Re: overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

Turn check is fine since you're almost always way ahead or way behind here. I don't think I can call that river. Looks like he missed his checkraise on the turn and trying to make up for it with an overbet. I would definitely call if it was a pot-size bet though.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:18 PM
JihadOnTheRiver JihadOnTheRiver is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chillin with Borat. I LIKE!
Posts: 220
Default Re: overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

No turn check is not fine. If you're way behind, the only way you'll find out is with a bet here. And if you don't bet, you give the opponent the option of sh.itting all over you, which he did in this case.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-20-2005, 01:17 PM
amoeba amoeba is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 691
Default Re: overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

[ QUOTE ]
No turn check is not fine. If you're way behind, the only way you'll find out is with a bet here. And if you don't bet, you give the opponent the option of sh.itting all over you, which he did in this case.

[/ QUOTE ]



the river over bet is quite rare. even more rare is the river overbet bluff.

I don't think the turn bet really tells you whether you are behind or not.

lets say you bet the turn. how much do you bet? lets say 2/3 pot. sounds reasonable. you bet 40, he calls. pot on river is 140 or so. he leads for 80, a little over 1/2 pot. you fold? you call?

notice how if you were behind, you would have dropped 120 extra that you didn't have to. whereas against most opponents who don't overbet the river with bluffs or made hands, after a checked turn, his hand range for leading the river is much greater allowing me to make more when I'm ahead and lose less when I'm behind.

also, if he is willing to push the river with a hand that you beat, how do you know he won't check raise all in on the turn with that same hand?



there was a post a while ago in MHNL that said that you shouldn't bet purely for information's sake.

you should bet or check based on pot control, value and any information you get as a byproduct of villain's reactions you take in but you should never bet purely for information.

remember, most of the time we aren't playing spiritrock like players here.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-20-2005, 01:18 PM
george w of poker george w  of poker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 265
Default Re: overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

i checked the turn because a) it seems people love to bluff when the board pairs and b) it would win me more when ahead of something like middle pair as it looks like i'm on overs and lose less when behind as people don't typically overbet like that.

i guess i'm not completely convinced a turn check is wrong because the river situation isn't all that common. however, there are two straight draws and overpairs that i should be extracting value from, therefore a bet is most likely called for.

as for the river call. i guess i'll stop making these calls that used to be +ev at lower levels. he had 55 for the rivered boat. the only hands i'm ahead of are 54 and air and i'm behind a whole bunch of hands.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-20-2005, 01:20 PM
amoeba amoeba is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 691
Default Re: overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

in my opinion the turn check is fine.

its fairly drawless so not much to protect against.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-20-2005, 01:26 PM
george w of poker george w  of poker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 265
Default Re: overpair, huge overbet 6max 1/2

nice post. thanks.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.