Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand? - Page 8

Wake up CALL · #71 11-10-2005, 07:24 PM

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I agree with everything you've said. He played it perfectly to setup Kanter, and take his stack. My point is that this late in the tournament, after having outlasted 6k people, you don't NEED to make this play. You don't NEED to put yourself in a position to get outdrawn. Why even take that chance?
I respect Greg, and I know he got a terrible beat. But, he knows as well as anyone that one pair to the river is NOT a great play for ALL your chips. You absolutely positively DON'T want a pot going to the river at this stage in the tournament. Greg could've taken close to half of Kanter's stack, and STILL be in great position to win the tourney without having to go to a showdown.

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Again, if you want to get all the chips in the tourney, why wouldn't you set your self up for a 9:2 showdown favorite? You have to risk chips to win, if you want to move up in place, then you're right, Greg should have played it harder; but he doesn't want to move up in place, he wants to take 1st.

You sound like a softy trying to survive the bubble.

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Okay, I give. Everyone else is correct. I'm wrong. Thank's for pointing it out. Funny thing though. Seems to me that Greg lost the hand, and ended up going out. Wasn't that what happened? Hachem faced with the same situation, played it differently, and stayed in to win. Hmmmmm...

Funny, I saw Hachem play big pairs very strong a few times. Shutting the door. Damn donkey. I just don't get why he played this way when he had the chance to build the pot, and take even more chips.

I have a funny story for everyone that you might enjoy. I was knocked out of the WCOOP main, and was railing some big name players. I was watching Raymer, and he had a pretty healthy stack. Top 10% I believe. He called a standard raise from another stack that was a little less then his. Flop came down low card rainbow. He called a half pot bet. Another low card hit the turn, but two diamonds were on the board. Raymer moved in. Guy called. What do you think Raymer had? K-10 diamonds. What do you think the other guy had? Who do you think won?

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I bet a 40 to 1 longshort at a racetrack one time. Guess which horse won? I am a handicapping genius.

#72 11-10-2005, 07:37 PM

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I agree with everything you've said. He played it perfectly to setup Kanter, and take his stack. My point is that this late in the tournament, after having outlasted 6k people, you don't NEED to make this play. You don't NEED to put yourself in a position to get outdrawn. Why even take that chance?
I respect Greg, and I know he got a terrible beat. But, he knows as well as anyone that one pair to the river is NOT a great play for ALL your chips. You absolutely positively DON'T want a pot going to the river at this stage in the tournament. Greg could've taken close to half of Kanter's stack, and STILL be in great position to win the tourney without having to go to a showdown.

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Again, if you want to get all the chips in the tourney, why wouldn't you set your self up for a 9:2 showdown favorite? You have to risk chips to win, if you want to move up in place, then you're right, Greg should have played it harder; but he doesn't want to move up in place, he wants to take 1st.

You sound like a softy trying to survive the bubble.

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Okay, I give. Everyone else is correct. I'm wrong. Thank's for pointing it out. Funny thing though. Seems to me that Greg lost the hand, and ended up going out. Wasn't that what happened? Hachem faced with the same situation, played it differently, and stayed in to win. Hmmmmm...

Funny, I saw Hachem play big pairs very strong a few times. Shutting the door. Damn donkey. I just don't get why he played this way when he had the chance to build the pot, and take even more chips.

I have a funny story for everyone that you might enjoy. I was knocked out of the WCOOP main, and was railing some big name players. I was watching Raymer, and he had a pretty healthy stack. Top 10% I believe. He called a standard raise from another stack that was a little less then his. Flop came down low card rainbow. He called a half pot bet. Another low card hit the turn, but two diamonds were on the board. Raymer moved in. Guy called. What do you think Raymer had? K-10 diamonds. What do you think the other guy had? Who do you think won?

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Did you hear that? It was my point, sailing over your massive head.

I figured out your problem, you're a moron.

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I've covered your "point" in about 10 posts already. Obviously you can't read, but I'm the moron. Thanks.

You guys keep relating this to some donk MTT $5.50 tourney that you play. The ones were it's an all-in fest, hope and pray, trap the donkey, etc. The possibility of him getting drawn out and losing almost his entire stack outweighed the attempt to get the extra 800k. He would've been sitting on 3 million had he took the pot down on the turn. Hardly bubble boy stack play. The extra wasn't going to make it for him, and it certainly wasn't going to put him at a disadvantage if he didn't get it. He made is play, it cost him the tourney, and I happen to think it was a bad decision.

Wake up CALL · #73 11-10-2005, 07:48 PM

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The possibility of him getting drawn out and losing almost his entire stack outweighed the attempt to get the extra 800k.

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You have just written down the problem (finally). This is true only for you!!! Not for Greg (nor for anyone else who wants to win rather than just move up in position a few notches), how can you not understand this?

#74 11-10-2005, 07:55 PM

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The possibility of him getting drawn out and losing almost his entire stack outweighed the attempt to get the extra 800k.

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You have just written down the problem (finally). This is true only for you!!! Not for Greg (nor for anyone else who wants to win rather than just move up in position a few notches), how can you not understand this?

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Let me point this out for the 5th time, so you can comprehend that your wrong. Hachem played his big pairs differently. He had AA and KK several times, and didn't let it get past the flop. He flopped trip jacks against Ivey, and move in immediately after Ivey made a pot sized raise. He could've called several times on several occasions, and built the pot. He didn't. He won. Did he not win? Did Greg not get draw out, and lose? Can YOU understand this?

Wake up CALL · #75 11-10-2005, 08:00 PM

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Let me point this out for the 5th time, so you can comprehend that your wrong. Hachem played his big pairs differently. He had AA and KK several times, and didn't let it get past the flop. He flopped trip jacks against Ivey, and move in immediately after Ivey made a pot sized raise. He could've called several times on several occasions, and built the pot. He didn't. He won. Did he not win? Did Greg not get draw out, and lose? Can YOU understand this?

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Let me point this out for the 4th time (from me and the umpteenth time total including others), so you can comprehend that you're wrong. You knew the hole cards you numbskull, Greg did not. How much simplier can we make it?

#76 11-10-2005, 08:04 PM

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Let me point this out for the 5th time, so you can comprehend that your wrong. Hachem played his big pairs differently. He had AA and KK several times, and didn't let it get past the flop. He flopped trip jacks against Ivey, and move in immediately after Ivey made a pot sized raise. He could've called several times on several occasions, and built the pot. He didn't. He won. Did he not win? Did Greg not get draw out, and lose? Can YOU understand this?

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Let me point this out for the 4th time (from me and the umpteenth time total including others), so you can comprehend that you're wrong. You knew the hole cards you numbskull, Greg did not. How much simplier can we make it?

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Even MORE of a reason to shut the door on the turn!!!!!

Fallen Hero · #77 11-10-2005, 08:15 PM

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The possibility of him getting drawn out and losing almost his entire stack outweighed the attempt to get the extra 800k.

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if you believe that, it's your problem. Don't try to pass it as a fact

Malificent · #78 11-10-2005, 08:42 PM

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Let me point this out for the 5th time, so you can comprehend that your wrong. Hachem played his big pairs differently. He had AA and KK several times, and didn't let it get past the flop. He flopped trip jacks against Ivey, and move in immediately after Ivey made a pot sized raise. He could've called several times on several occasions, and built the pot. He didn't. He won. Did he not win? Did Greg not get draw out, and lose? Can YOU understand this?

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Let me point this out for the 4th time (from me and the umpteenth time total including others), so you can comprehend that you're wrong. You knew the hole cards you numbskull, Greg did not. How much simplier can we make it?

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Even MORE of a reason to shut the door on the turn!!!!!

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The big difference between you and Greg here is that your advice is coming straight from fear. You're afraid that someone might suck out on you. Greg, I'm sure, worries about people sucking out on him, but plays strong to win. Poker is about being aggressive and putting your money in when you're the favorite. If you're going to play afraid that you're going to get sucked out everytime you have a hand that is a large favorite, then you're never going to win a major tourney.

sweetjazz · #79 11-10-2005, 08:42 PM

Don't listen to the other posters. Just play the tournament strategy that you think is best. In fact, the best thing to do is to study all the hands that Hatchem played and try to mimic what he did. You could also look at Raymer's hands from last year, because he was playing better than. Also, ESPN occassionally reairs the Moneymaker and Varkonyi episodes, so you have more correctly played hands to look at.

It sounds like the other people in this forum are just jealous because you found the flaw in Greg's play sooner than they did. Obviously, they should have realized this hand is where Greg screwed up (although his last all-in was bad too, because that busted him completely).

Malificent · #80 11-10-2005, 08:43 PM

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Don't listen to the other posters. Just play the tournament strategy that you think is best. In fact, the best thing to do is to study all the hands that Hatchem played and try to mimic what he did. You could also look at Raymer's hands from last year, because he was playing better than. Also, ESPN occassionally reairs the Moneymaker and Varkonyi episodes, so you have more correctly played hands to look at.

It sounds like the other people in this forum are just jealous because you found the flaw in Greg's play sooner than they did. Obviously, they should have realized this hand is where Greg screwed up (although his last all-in was bad too, because that busted him completely).

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Heh. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]