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  #21  
Old 07-07-2005, 01:45 PM
FourKing Hell FourKing Hell is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

Thanks all for the responses.

During the hand I decided that I wanted to bet, since he would check a lot of hands he would also call with behind, and I didn't want to have to fold to this guy. If I check here, I am giving myself the opportunity to make a big mistake. If I bet an amount small enough that I can fold to a raise, I might as well check. The pot was already bigger than his stack. If I bet half-pot and he raises all I can beat is basically a bluff or POSSIBLY a lower set. I don't see any other hands that would raise there facing a three-flush. That said, I knew I'd call anyway, which could be an even bigger mistake then check-calling a push, as in that case he would have fold equity and be a little more likely to bluff.

So, I pushed. No way I was laying my hand down against this guy - I had a note from him from the first hand I played, where he called a big bluff with some crappy top pair no kicker hand. Worse hands would only call my bet, whereas I would lose my stack against better hands. Unfortunately, he turned over T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Oh well. Guess he's a Doyle fan.

By the way, who raises the flop in his spot?
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  #22  
Old 07-07-2005, 01:58 PM
TheWorstPlayer TheWorstPlayer is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

Do you really think this guy raises a $600 river bet with a worse hand? By pushing, you actually make his turn play correct, FWIW.
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2005, 02:37 PM
Leptyne Leptyne is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

[ QUOTE ]
Theoretically, calling the bet on the turn should rule out the flush draw, but with this guy you never know.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you rule out the flush draw after the call of your turn bet it would seem natural to put this idjit on one of the other equally likely hands like AA, KK or JT or JTs. I'm not looking for a boogyman in the closet but J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would make for the worst case scenario. If this idjit has the one holding that I would least like to see then he's going to have to show it to me.

Since you've eliminated the flush draw you put him on the straight draw and push the river. He'll fold with a busted straight and call with his AA or KK. You want to make good decisions but now is not the time to second guess yourself. Stick with your first impression since you have nothing to change your mind.
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  #24  
Old 07-07-2005, 02:54 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think this guy raises a $600 river bet with a worse hand? By pushing, you actually make his turn play correct, FWIW.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. You take his stack on a board pairing club.
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  #25  
Old 07-07-2005, 02:59 PM
Leptyne Leptyne is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

Each time I get burned by some dork playing this way, and it's happened twice this week, I always vow to push the turn next time. It's crap like this that can put you on tilt. I guess the best solution is to make the correct play of a ~$600 bet and fold to a raise, which can also make you a little tilty. Why would anyone think this game is fun? Reminds me of golf.
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  #26  
Old 07-07-2005, 03:43 PM
Dantes Dantes is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

[ QUOTE ]
No way I was laying my hand down against this guy - I had a note from him from the first hand I played, where he called a big bluff with some crappy top pair no kicker hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rethink your logic in this statement.
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  #27  
Old 07-07-2005, 03:46 PM
savman savman is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

well said voodoo....i bet 800 and give him a chance to call with hands i beat. your hand is too big, and he has something he obviously wants to call with. i am not a big fan of pushing since he defenitely calls with the flush and it might scare him into folding some holdings i beat. if he pushes i have a hard time not calling against this oppnnent, but folding is not out of the question....personal decision there. hope it worked out, i am about to read what i assume is the results.
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  #28  
Old 07-07-2005, 04:08 PM
FourKing Hell FourKing Hell is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

What do you mean?

What I meant to say is that since I have seen him call down big bets with shitty hands, I won't rule out that he's calling with some kind of one-pair hand now. Apparently, he likes to believe that his opponents are weak when they bet. If I bet he may call with crap, and if I check he may (correctly) read that as weakness and push a hand he initially called with to see what I'd do, but he now believes might not be good. That possibility gives me an opportunity to screw up - I can't fold knowing for sure he has a flush, but I can't really call either because he might well have it.

In response to the other post about making his turn play correct: Aside from the fact that I'm only laying him 4:1 *IF* I push every time he makes his hand, which is not enough, I won't always pay him off because I won't always have a hand. And that's not even taking into account that in this case not all of his outs were clean.

Right?
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  #29  
Old 07-07-2005, 04:13 PM
TheWorstPlayer TheWorstPlayer is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

OK, maybe not correct. But at least quite close to correct. He also had a gutshot straight draw, right? (I'm too lazy to check the hand.) But I think Grue's point is that even though this guy is a donkey, he seems to be quite passive and your evidence of his donkishness is all from him calling with marginal hands, not overbetting hands or bluffing too frequently. So although if you check you may induce a bluff from complete garbage, it doesn't seem like he has complete garbage here. It seems like he has a flush or some worse made hand. So he is going to check the made hands and bet the flush. So you probably can check/fold. But I think that is leaving a lot of money on the table against this super loose opponent, which is why I think you should bet the river. But this villain simply does not seem too likely to bluff raise a marginal made hand on the river here. So if you bet $600 and he raises, you can be certain enough to fold knowing that he hit his flush. That way you make the most when ahead and lose the least when behind, IMO. Against a more normal opponent, it's a bad line as fsuplayer and others pointed out, but this guy seems so bad that it is the line which most takes advantage of his weaknesses (looseness and passivity).
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  #30  
Old 07-07-2005, 04:20 PM
longwyfrmlbc longwyfrmlbc is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Fired two barrels and the flush comes.. now what?

Call me weak-tight, but i check fold.

Villain has shown a tendency to call any bet, regardless of the bet's size, and a club comes on the river. You've been betting so hard that I think he would just turn over his hand if he had anything but a flush.
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