Two hands - your thoughts please

[Blue Sky]

1st hand - $6 - 12 game at the Mirage. Table is loose passive. I open raise with Q's two before the button. The button, SB and 2 others call.

Flop come 9s Qh 9h. It checks around.

Turn is the 5d. SB bets out, two folds, I call (the button was short stacked and already counting out chips for a raise,) Button raises, SB re-raises, I raise, button caps all-in.

River is the Kh. Sb bets out, I raise, she re-raises? At this point I cannot put her on K's full because of the action of the turn and I also can't put her on the straight flush because of the action on the turn. My only fear is quad 9's which was a legitamate hand to call the pre-flop raise with. I wuss and only call.

My Q's full was good over her 9's full of Q's and the button's 9's full of K's. This is a would of, could of, should of hand in my opinion...did I do the right thing by slowing down or should I of kept gunning?

2nd hand - $15 - 30 at the Bellagio. Game is tight aggressive. No one ever seemed to come in from late position without a raise and usually with decent cards but not always excellent cards. I pick up AQs clubs in the BB. Two limpers to the CO (local player who fancied his play a bit above the rest of us tourists but has recently taken a couple of medicore beats and is steaming a bit.) The SB, myself, and one of the limpers call.

Flop comes A 7 4 all diamonds. Checked to CO who bets and myself and the MP call.

Turn was the 10h. Checked to CO who makes a big production about betting someones diamonds for them....I take the opportunity to raise and beat the CO's chips into the pot. The MP calls $9 all-in. CO flashes his cards to the players on both sides of him and mumbles about tourist calling stations drawing out on him all the time and mucks AKo face up.

I flipped over my cards and said "pair of Aces with a Queen kicker" the MP asked the dealer for another dimond and showed the K of diamonds for the nut flush draw. The river was black and I won.

What are everyone's thoughts on these plays? What could of or should I have done differently?

[andyfox]

First hand: I would have bet the flop. There's a flush draw, a straight draw and a pair on board. You might get some good action here, plus it makes the pot bigger to entice more sticking around on the turn and river.

I suppose one can always find a reason to slow down on the river without the nuts, but since the button had capped, there's reason to believe he also had a 9, effectively giving you the nuts, since I agreep pocket kings is highly unlikely.

I like your play on the second hand. Interesting how players seem to steam in Vegas compared to L.A. They make "good" laydowns instead of "bad" calls.

[Gabe]

First hand I would have put at least a couple more bets in on the river. Quads seem less likely because of the buttons actions. I know that people do some strange things when they go all in, but I would have raised at least once more and called an other reraise, without the addition info gained from the buttons play.

The second hand was played great.

[Diplomat]

Hi Sky,

I would bet the flop. People will chase if they have overcards, a straight draw, (ie. JT) even pocket pairs. Hell, you might even get action from some goof with a hand like 77, trying to make a play for the pot. Not to mention that at these limits, people will expect you to fool around with the nuts, not just bet them. So bet the flop. People will call and/or raise, and that has to be good.

The second hand looks fine to me. I would have been tempted to bet the flop, or checkraise the flop. Yeah, I'd probably checkraise the flop and see who cold-calls two bets.

A couple suggestions about posting -- if possible, post multiple hands seperately. It makes for easier reading, and imo, better analysis. I'd also post the 6-12 hand in the small stakes forum...not because it is less worthy of being posted, but because you will get analysis from people who play those games more regularily. Just a couple thoughts.

-Diplomat

[Tommy Angelo]

"I would have bet the flop."

Me too.

In checking off the reasons why, this IMO is a very good one:

"it makes the pot bigger to entice more sticking around on the turn and river."

I find the inverse effective as well: As lone preflop raiser in a headsup or three-way pot, sometimes I'll check the flop in an auto/bet bluff situation so as to keep the pot small enough that a turn bet by me offers muckably bad prospects to even the most stubborn opponents.

Tommy

[RollaJ]

1)Bet the flop, people expect you to bet no matter what you have, give them a chance to c/r you. Since you have position make sure money goes in on every round.
2)Hand 2 you played well

[rivaridge]

1st Hand: I disagree with the others who say to bet this flop. You have the best hand (with very little chance of losing)and by waiting you are giving your opponents a chance to make the second best hand (a straight or flush) This is a great slowplay situation. The only thing I would have done differently is I would have kept betting on the river(you have queens full!).

[nykenny]

i only read the first hand. i think you should have bet. when you have a full house and all the cards are in playing zone, it is always possible for someone to hit that trip, or having a straight or flush draw... slow play only heads up [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Diplomat]

Hi Riverage,

I agree someone could easily make the second best hand, straight or flush -- but they will call anyway if you bet the flop! Straight and flush draws will almost automatically call the flop, or possibly raise. And they likely will bet and/or raise if they hit, especially if you showed strength on this flop. (most people would slowplay, which sets off alarm bells for many people) Bets are left on the table in these situations. You want to slowplay when there are no legitimate draws, and if you bet, you might win the pot right away. This is not the case here.

-Diplomat

[Blue Sky]

First of all thank you to everyone who posted a response. After having time to think about this hand and read all of the posts in regards to the flopped boat, I agree that I should of put in a bet on the flop for a couple of reasons. 1st - the draws are going to call anyway and anyone with a 9 is probably going to c/r giving me an even better chance of having them in for the long haul. 2nd - Everyone would expect pocket A's, K's, J's or even AK and AQ to bet at this flop and if they held the 9 or the case Q they might just expect to be ahead at this point to take some shots at me.

Of course in the heat of the moment I thought that I wanted to let the draws catch up on the turn and then lock them in when the money became bigger. Hopefully, if ever presented with the same situation I can extract more out of it.

A quick side note to Diplomat...I appreciate the posting hands seperately advice...I only posted together because, as I expected the $6-12 hand would draw attention and the $8-16 hand was more of a throw in incase anyone had any seperate advice. Also although I realize that many of you in the mid and high stakes forum look down at a $6 - 12 hand, the small stakes section seems to have been taken over by many newer players who speak only about the no fold em micro limits online and I was looking to get some advice from some more expeirenced players. (nothing wrong with the small stakes forum or its posters, b/c I post there often and have learned a great deal from that forum, but I'm slowly moving up limits and was looking at getting a prespective from a different point of view.)